Hong Kong Airlines order A380s
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Geh065,
I never wrote that CX could not fill the seats (suites in this case) but rather that it may not create the greatest return on capital investment. Furthermore, the branding image created by the media buzz would only truly benefit a very small percentage of CX passengers. I do not think F class is CX's bread and butter. J class and cargo are. That is why frequency and belly cargo are top priorities which big twins deliver far better than an A380.
With respect to higher demand on A380 flights, I'm quite certain that at least a portion is due to the fact that operators fly them on their highest demand flight times and days. That would seem to make sense, right?
I have no doubt CX could make money with the A380 on routes like HKG-LHR. The question is whether they would make more with -8I, or even big twins operating to additional airports like Gatwick and Manchester. For the time being, it appears that operating clapped out -400s is turning a good profit despite the high fuel prices.
CXorcist
I never wrote that CX could not fill the seats (suites in this case) but rather that it may not create the greatest return on capital investment. Furthermore, the branding image created by the media buzz would only truly benefit a very small percentage of CX passengers. I do not think F class is CX's bread and butter. J class and cargo are. That is why frequency and belly cargo are top priorities which big twins deliver far better than an A380.
With respect to higher demand on A380 flights, I'm quite certain that at least a portion is due to the fact that operators fly them on their highest demand flight times and days. That would seem to make sense, right?
I have no doubt CX could make money with the A380 on routes like HKG-LHR. The question is whether they would make more with -8I, or even big twins operating to additional airports like Gatwick and Manchester. For the time being, it appears that operating clapped out -400s is turning a good profit despite the high fuel prices.
CXorcist
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Airbus A380 order forced under wraps over China-EU emissions spat - Telegraph
china: Remove the carbon tax or we cancel the order
china: Remove the carbon tax or we cancel the order
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Boeing Guru
Max,
I admit to preferring Boeing, but only because their airplanes last longer and fly more reliably. I appreciate the cockpit technology and quiet cabins Airbus employs. The 330 seems to be clearly superior to the 767, and the 320neo may well be the airplane that forces Boeing to design a new single aisle. I have every confidence that the 350 will be a good airplane by 2020 (much later than the 787). Yet I find the fact that Airbus has yet to build a great 4 engine aircraft puzzling. The 340 was essentially crushed by the 777, and the 380 may never break even for Airbus if the -8I steals enough marketshare. Similarly, Airbus has essentially surrendered the entire large cargo market.
So while Paris may appear to make Airbus look dominant. The reality is that Boeing is a far more profitable company. I would argue that much of Boeing's financial health stems from the fact that it builds a superior aircraft from an airline operator's perspective. Airbus continues to rely on government subsidies to sell their aircraft at steeply discounted prices.
CXorcist
I admit to preferring Boeing, but only because their airplanes last longer and fly more reliably. I appreciate the cockpit technology and quiet cabins Airbus employs. The 330 seems to be clearly superior to the 767, and the 320neo may well be the airplane that forces Boeing to design a new single aisle. I have every confidence that the 350 will be a good airplane by 2020 (much later than the 787). Yet I find the fact that Airbus has yet to build a great 4 engine aircraft puzzling. The 340 was essentially crushed by the 777, and the 380 may never break even for Airbus if the -8I steals enough marketshare. Similarly, Airbus has essentially surrendered the entire large cargo market.
So while Paris may appear to make Airbus look dominant. The reality is that Boeing is a far more profitable company. I would argue that much of Boeing's financial health stems from the fact that it builds a superior aircraft from an airline operator's perspective. Airbus continues to rely on government subsidies to sell their aircraft at steeply discounted prices.
CXorcist
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China blurs A380 order, backs 747 amid EU row
28 Jun 2011
China downgraded the announcement of an Airbus superjumbo order and signed up for the Boeing 747-8 as deals worth US$9 billion, coinciding with a row over European emissions trading rules, industry sources said.
The deals both involved parts of the HNA airlines group and had been planned before the Paris Air Show, they said, but the decision not to announce the names of the buyers triggered one of the mysteries of this week's event.
Industry sources said plans to announce a high-profile US$3.8 billion deal between Airbus and Hong Kong Airlines for 10 A380 superjumbos were called off on Thursday because of China's anger over European plans to charge airlines for emissions.
China threatened last month to hold back on purchasing Airbus aircraft because of the EU emissions trading scheme, which airlines body IATA has called illegal.
Additionally, industry sources said a company affiliated to the same carrier, Hainan Airlines, was behind the unexpected announcement of an anonymous deal at Boeing this week.
Boeing said an unidentified airline had provisionally committed to 15 747-8 passenger jets worth US$4.8 billion.
Airlines often choose to buy airliners without identifying themselves to their competition, but such announcements are rarely made at air shows which are designed for publicity. Boeing also rarely announces deals before they are confirmed.
Airbus and Boeing declined to comment and representatives of the HNA Group were not available.
Hong Kong Airlines is 46% owned by HNA Group, the parent of Hainan Airlines.
TEMPTING TARGET
Airbus and Boeing both brought their largest passenger jets to the show, a biennial event which rotates with the Farnborough Air Show in Britain.
The 747-8 with 467 seats is Boeing's first stretched version of the 747 and is in the midst of flight testing. It will enter service initially as a freighter, then in a passenger version.
The 525-seat A380 is the world's largest airliner and Europe's most high-profile aircraft since Concorde, making it a tempting target in any political tensions affecting aerospace.
The Airbus deal has not itself been blocked and is in the manufacturer's order book, but the decision to cancel a signing ceremony is a clear protest signal, the industry sources said.
Aircraft purchases also need Chinese government approval.
The 747-8 purchase followed competition between Airbus and Boeing for the Hong Kong Airlines order.
While advancing development of its own smaller plane, China tends to balance orders between the two foreign suppliers.
From 1 January next year, the EU will require all airlines flying to Europe to be included in the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), a system that compels polluters to buy permits for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit above a certain cap.
China's top aviation industry body ramped up pressure on the European Union earlier this month, saying it would give full support to legal action against the forced entry of airlines into the EU's carbon trading scheme.
China says the scheme is unfair for developing countries and costly.
Wires
28 Jun 2011
China downgraded the announcement of an Airbus superjumbo order and signed up for the Boeing 747-8 as deals worth US$9 billion, coinciding with a row over European emissions trading rules, industry sources said.
The deals both involved parts of the HNA airlines group and had been planned before the Paris Air Show, they said, but the decision not to announce the names of the buyers triggered one of the mysteries of this week's event.
Industry sources said plans to announce a high-profile US$3.8 billion deal between Airbus and Hong Kong Airlines for 10 A380 superjumbos were called off on Thursday because of China's anger over European plans to charge airlines for emissions.
China threatened last month to hold back on purchasing Airbus aircraft because of the EU emissions trading scheme, which airlines body IATA has called illegal.
Additionally, industry sources said a company affiliated to the same carrier, Hainan Airlines, was behind the unexpected announcement of an anonymous deal at Boeing this week.
Boeing said an unidentified airline had provisionally committed to 15 747-8 passenger jets worth US$4.8 billion.
Airlines often choose to buy airliners without identifying themselves to their competition, but such announcements are rarely made at air shows which are designed for publicity. Boeing also rarely announces deals before they are confirmed.
Airbus and Boeing declined to comment and representatives of the HNA Group were not available.
Hong Kong Airlines is 46% owned by HNA Group, the parent of Hainan Airlines.
TEMPTING TARGET
Airbus and Boeing both brought their largest passenger jets to the show, a biennial event which rotates with the Farnborough Air Show in Britain.
The 747-8 with 467 seats is Boeing's first stretched version of the 747 and is in the midst of flight testing. It will enter service initially as a freighter, then in a passenger version.
The 525-seat A380 is the world's largest airliner and Europe's most high-profile aircraft since Concorde, making it a tempting target in any political tensions affecting aerospace.
The Airbus deal has not itself been blocked and is in the manufacturer's order book, but the decision to cancel a signing ceremony is a clear protest signal, the industry sources said.
Aircraft purchases also need Chinese government approval.
The 747-8 purchase followed competition between Airbus and Boeing for the Hong Kong Airlines order.
While advancing development of its own smaller plane, China tends to balance orders between the two foreign suppliers.
From 1 January next year, the EU will require all airlines flying to Europe to be included in the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), a system that compels polluters to buy permits for each tonne of carbon dioxide they emit above a certain cap.
China's top aviation industry body ramped up pressure on the European Union earlier this month, saying it would give full support to legal action against the forced entry of airlines into the EU's carbon trading scheme.
China says the scheme is unfair for developing countries and costly.
Wires
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and KA.....
I am still amazed at the lack of direction and expansion for KA, here are our competitors making order after order and no doubt HKA will take all available slots at an already congested HKG airport.
The future for a command at KA is like a delay in China, "undetermined"....
The future for a command at KA is like a delay in China, "undetermined"....
