The basings fiasco
Join Date: Oct 1998
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jriv
Primarily because our families would not be allowed to stay in CA. They would be allowed to come in as visitors, but would not be allowed to put down roots. They would be treated differently from crew. If I were single I would have happily taken a CA base.
The current situation is that the company will no longer give a CA base to a crewmember who does not have the right to live and work in the US. If they knew what they were doing they would realise that the restriction is not necessary.
Primarily because our families would not be allowed to stay in CA. They would be allowed to come in as visitors, but would not be allowed to put down roots. They would be treated differently from crew. If I were single I would have happily taken a CA base.
The current situation is that the company will no longer give a CA base to a crewmember who does not have the right to live and work in the US. If they knew what they were doing they would realise that the restriction is not necessary.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big Mach,
That sounds reasonable enough. But I think you underestimate the authority of US immigration officers. If you told them (or they otherwise found out) that you were essentially using the visa to give youself permanent residency, they would put a stop to it one way or another.
I have personally had a work visa revoked by an immigration officer when he realized I had "creatively" applied for a visa. Nothing illegal, just my liberal interpretation of the law.
If you don't believe me, just ask immigration on your next trip to the US.
That sounds reasonable enough. But I think you underestimate the authority of US immigration officers. If you told them (or they otherwise found out) that you were essentially using the visa to give youself permanent residency, they would put a stop to it one way or another.
I have personally had a work visa revoked by an immigration officer when he realized I had "creatively" applied for a visa. Nothing illegal, just my liberal interpretation of the law.
If you don't believe me, just ask immigration on your next trip to the US.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Nirvana
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One Dream, one team. You can make a difference.
The company no doubt, will extend itself in its time honoured fashion and seek input from all effected in this basing debacle. Your valuable thoughts and strategies on this topic will be taken into due consideration and you will feel the appreciation of being a team player. You may even have some suggestions that will surprise or surpass the eminently trained manager/s, who will graciously acknowledge the contributions you may make.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole
Age: 93
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, looks like its the beginning of a few changes. Check your Groupwise guys and you will find that temp bases in toto, base swaps beyond national boundaries and preferred ports beyond national boundaries are all dead. Glad I took my temp base last year, I had a feeling I might not get another chance.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole
Age: 93
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sets a worrying precedent. CX looks like it will take the easy road and just get rid of things, rather than put in the resources and find a equitable and workable solution.
ps. Did I just put the words 'equitable' and 'workable' in the same sentence as CX. I guess I am still a little naive!
ps. Did I just put the words 'equitable' and 'workable' in the same sentence as CX. I guess I am still a little naive!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I assumed the paragraph titled 'Corporate Responsibility' was finally going to be a recognition that CX had a responsibility to its employees.
But then I should really have known better....
But then I should really have known better....
Join Date: Oct 1998
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Note from all this that HKIRD regard us all to be HK based and international agreements back up their claim. We are about to be caught between conflicting governments and a company that does not want to get involved.
The HKIRD have every right to lay claim to our tax dollars. The agreements are clear. The fiasco continues.
The HKIRD have every right to lay claim to our tax dollars. The agreements are clear. The fiasco continues.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another benefit down the toilet
Our best benefit (arguably behind housing) gone.
Very sad to see that management took the easy road once again and said "cannot la" on temp base, prefered port and base swap etc etc. Just like AMS closure.. Surely there are ways around this with just a little time and effort. Would have thought that was the job for the basings office staff?? Blows me away that most of the business think CX is run really well..
This job once again seriously lost its feel-good..
Very sad to see that management took the easy road once again and said "cannot la" on temp base, prefered port and base swap etc etc. Just like AMS closure.. Surely there are ways around this with just a little time and effort. Would have thought that was the job for the basings office staff?? Blows me away that most of the business think CX is run really well..
This job once again seriously lost its feel-good..
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Western Hemisphere
Age: 41
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This sounds like a negotiating tactic. Terminate all the perks in the current basing agreement so we have to fight for stuff we already had, never mind improving the document.
"Ohh you'de like to negotiate for Temp Bases, sign off on the new FTLs and its yours."
"Ohh you want mutual base exchanges, well we need this in return"
"Ohh those preferred ports which make both our lives easier, sorry they're gone, but if you work with us on the HK Housing problem, we might find a solution."
"Ohh you want us to clear up the onshore double taxation with HKIRD, well we need some leeway with International Cadets"
What better way to negotiate than remove all perks before coming to the table?
"Ohh you'de like to negotiate for Temp Bases, sign off on the new FTLs and its yours."
"Ohh you want mutual base exchanges, well we need this in return"
"Ohh those preferred ports which make both our lives easier, sorry they're gone, but if you work with us on the HK Housing problem, we might find a solution."
"Ohh you want us to clear up the onshore double taxation with HKIRD, well we need some leeway with International Cadets"
What better way to negotiate than remove all perks before coming to the table?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The loss of temp base, base swaps and preferred ports is a disgrace and without a valid reason to boot. This company is really the pits and anyone thinking of joining this outfit should go elsewhere.
Join Date: Oct 1998
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Basings Manager has said that taxation is a matter between the employee and the authorities who demand the tax. So we are now faced with HKIRD taking full tax and, in addition, paying full tax in home port.
When the Aussie based crew believed that they were not liable for Aussie tax the company paid them a lower salary reflecting their tax free advantage. When the UK cabin crew won their case against HMRC (operators of a protection racket in the UK) absolving them of the requirement to pay National Insurance, this bonus was cited as a reason for them only getting two per cent or thereabouts in the recent pay rise. The company also gained from not having to pay employers NI, but thatdoes not count.
Can I assume that, given the extra burden of taxation about to fall on some of the based crew, and in the light of their previous reaction to taxation changes, the company will grant an immediate payrise to cover the additional burden. After all it was the company and their incompetent advisers who put us in this situation in the first place.
When the Aussie based crew believed that they were not liable for Aussie tax the company paid them a lower salary reflecting their tax free advantage. When the UK cabin crew won their case against HMRC (operators of a protection racket in the UK) absolving them of the requirement to pay National Insurance, this bonus was cited as a reason for them only getting two per cent or thereabouts in the recent pay rise. The company also gained from not having to pay employers NI, but thatdoes not count.
Can I assume that, given the extra burden of taxation about to fall on some of the based crew, and in the light of their previous reaction to taxation changes, the company will grant an immediate payrise to cover the additional burden. After all it was the company and their incompetent advisers who put us in this situation in the first place.
Who on an Australian base would give 47 c + 15 c = 62 cents of most dollars of their 'hard earned' to two governments, one of which is a country they don't even live in? It's insane! It wouldn't be worth working!
Maybe the Hong Kong Government could start taxing QANTAS pilots who regularly bid HKG patterns.
If this isn't resolved CX had better brace themselves for two things:
1. Large numbers of pilots and families coming to Hong Kong with the associated costs
2. Large numbers of pilots who don't want to come back resigning.
Maybe the Hong Kong Government could start taxing QANTAS pilots who regularly bid HKG patterns.
If this isn't resolved CX had better brace themselves for two things:
1. Large numbers of pilots and families coming to Hong Kong with the associated costs
2. Large numbers of pilots who don't want to come back resigning.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: the world
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as a "yank", a 9 year F/O and maybe no chance of EVER going back to US, and if I do, no social security, unemployment, medical after retirement... all i can say is... if UPS starts to hire I hope to be wearing the brown uniform..
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as a "yank", a 9 year F/O and maybe no chance of EVER going back to US, and if I do, no social security, unemployment, medical after retirement... all i can say is... if UPS starts to hire I hope to be wearing the brown uniform..
I have friends i Dragon Air that have been there for probably around 9 years or so and I think they would be bringing back a nice chunk if they left today. Or maybe they are all talk
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After 9 years in HK on housing allowance don't you have a significant part of retirement taken care of?
New measures have been taken by the HK Government to cool the property market.
Buying here has just become out out reach of most expats coming to HK with a family.