880 tonight = No FO. Let's keep it that way
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You won't change the system - the company will always get their way. Unions don't work in Hong Kong, hasn't that already been established?! It's how it's worked here for years - love it or leave it.
You will never see executives in Hong Kong kowtowing to staff demands. It just isn't in their fibre to do it and I doubt the thought would have even crossed their minds.
You will never see executives in Hong Kong kowtowing to staff demands. It just isn't in their fibre to do it and I doubt the thought would have even crossed their minds.
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Ex Cathedra,
The thought had never crossed my mind (read below, life has never been better); it sounds like you're getting close to it though. With all effort and no outcome, it mustn't be easy.
You may not realise it but you're already putting that KY to good use. Any sign of goodwill from management recently? It doesn't look like they're in any despair. In fact, they're profiting!
This year, I realised aviation isn't a market where one could prosper any more (unless you're an executive of course). I jumped ship and I work for an investment bank now and have never looked back. I decided to put my tertiary education to good use and the transition has been surprisingly smooth. Now I can fly on holidays for pleasure and not have to worry about being exploited any more. The best part is actually the extra time at home (not getting over jet lag).
I do regret that commercial aviation, especially in HK, has changed for the worse over the past 10-20 years.
The market is on the up and I know my bonus is looking good this year
gotcha
geh065,
Good point, I will withdraw my judgement on Unions in HK and just narrow it down to airline union(s) in the SAR.
Although, the people working for those companies in HK were on a pittance and needed the increased wage to survive which it seems is why the unions did achieve something.
Also, with a company of Cathay's diverse range of pilot contracts - ie expats (a scale, b scale), CEPs, previous LEPs - it is a gargantuan task to ask everyone to rally together when each group wants something different. Even worse when there is mistrust and often bad feeling between the ranks. Divide and conquer!
Good luck with that.
BEKOL Magic
The morale being? Just give up and break out the K-Y?
You're also inevitably going to die one day. Why not just shorten your misery and throw yourself off the roof or something?
Or is that your reasonable excuse for working Gs?
You're also inevitably going to die one day. Why not just shorten your misery and throw yourself off the roof or something?
Or is that your reasonable excuse for working Gs?
You may not realise it but you're already putting that KY to good use. Any sign of goodwill from management recently? It doesn't look like they're in any despair. In fact, they're profiting!
This year, I realised aviation isn't a market where one could prosper any more (unless you're an executive of course). I jumped ship and I work for an investment bank now and have never looked back. I decided to put my tertiary education to good use and the transition has been surprisingly smooth. Now I can fly on holidays for pleasure and not have to worry about being exploited any more. The best part is actually the extra time at home (not getting over jet lag).
I do regret that commercial aviation, especially in HK, has changed for the worse over the past 10-20 years.
The market is on the up and I know my bonus is looking good this year
gotcha
geh065,
Good point, I will withdraw my judgement on Unions in HK and just narrow it down to airline union(s) in the SAR.
Although, the people working for those companies in HK were on a pittance and needed the increased wage to survive which it seems is why the unions did achieve something.
Also, with a company of Cathay's diverse range of pilot contracts - ie expats (a scale, b scale), CEPs, previous LEPs - it is a gargantuan task to ask everyone to rally together when each group wants something different. Even worse when there is mistrust and often bad feeling between the ranks. Divide and conquer!
Good luck with that.
BEKOL Magic
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The original term was 'divide and rule (divide ut regnes) as practised by Julius Caesar and other Roman leaders. CX was actually having a small recruiting problem in the late 80's until the 'Dispute' down under threw up a swag of newly-redundant experienced jet pilots.
Then the introduction of basings and B Scale salaries proved more successful than management could believe, division was established and it has all gone downhill since. The rulers will push as hard as they can until they meet resistance, then they will back off a little, but no more than they think they have to.
Capiche?
Then the introduction of basings and B Scale salaries proved more successful than management could believe, division was established and it has all gone downhill since. The rulers will push as hard as they can until they meet resistance, then they will back off a little, but no more than they think they have to.
Capiche?
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Here's another SCMP article...
Actually you are wrong. It is just that WE can't get it right. Staff unions of company like Watsons Water and some other local companies have gone on strike before and basically got what they wanted. Remember when the construction workers in HK all stopped working a while back? They got pretty much the pay rises they all demanded.
Unions push for bigger pay rises
Anita Lam
Updated on Nov 01, 2010
Unions are pressing for larger pay rises in the coming year after a study found profits at some of the city's key employers increased sixfold in the first six months from a year ago.
The Confederation of Trade Unions and a dozen of its affiliates, including cabin crew and pilots from Cathay Pacific, demanded a 7 per cent pay rise - more than double the 2.5 to 3.5 per cent proposed by the Employers' Federation.
Mung Siu-tat, of the CTU, said that for most companies a 7 per cent pay rise for staff would amount to less than 6 per cent of their profits.
Cathay Pacific topped the list of the most profitable companies in the first half, according to the CTU study. Earnings at New World Development, Sun Hung Kai Properties, Hang Lung Properties and Swire Pacific doubled or tripled in the first six months, the CTU said.
But Cathay posted profit of HK$70 billion in the first half - more than six times the HK$921 million it made in the same period last year.
"It's all lies if employers continue to blame small pay rises on economic uncertainties. They made so much money but will only give their staff the crumbs - this will only lead to more labour disputes," Mung said.
The Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association, Cathay's pilots' union, is seeking members' views on work-to-rule action in the run-up to Christmas and the Lunar New Year holidays if the airline does not yield to their demand for pay rises averaging 30 per cent over the next three years.
"It will cost just HK$8 more for each ticket - less than a coffee's worth at McDonald's," John Findlay, the association's assistant general secretary, said.
Bus drivers, delivery workers, security guards, school cleaners and telecommunications workers are all demanding the 7 per cent pay rise. Watson's bottled water delivery workers threatened industrial action if their demands were not met.
Lee Cheuk-yan, legislator and the CTU's founder, said it was a reasonable request. Lee said the gross domestic product of the city's workforce per capita rose 4.5 per cent this year, and with an inflation rate of 2 to 3 per cent a year, workers should be offered a 7.1 per cent pay rise.
The union said it would step up its campaign in the next two months to raise awareness among low-paid workers of their rights in case employers tried to cut benefits to cancel out pay rises.
Cafe de Coral came under fire last month after offering staff a pay rise of more than 10 per cent but then withdrawing free meals, which ultimately reduced their monthly salaries.
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Bekol Magic
'This year, I realised aviation isn't a market where one could prosper any more (unless you're an executive of course). I jumped ship and I work for an investment bank now and have never looked back.
Good point, I will withdraw my judgement on Unions in HK and just narrow it down to airline union(s) in the SAR.'
Never looked back but still surf the airline pilot forum? And Airline Union in HKG - you forget that the FAU/ FAA and DPA seem to have represented their members quite well to CX etc.
Or are you just here to slag people off. Were you even a AoA member?
Good point, I will withdraw my judgement on Unions in HK and just narrow it down to airline union(s) in the SAR.'
Never looked back but still surf the airline pilot forum? And Airline Union in HKG - you forget that the FAU/ FAA and DPA seem to have represented their members quite well to CX etc.
Or are you just here to slag people off. Were you even a AoA member?
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Or are you just here to slag people off.
Now he is just back here with a holier than thou condescending attitude to try and drown his regret whenever he sees an aircraft fly by the window of his nice 60th floor office.
BEKOL, we worship you. You're the man.
I work for an investment bank now and have never looked back.
Or is Bloomeberg.com down?
With all effort and no outcome, it mustn't be easy.
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I expected you to have better form than resorting to ad hominem attacks, Ex Cathedra. 
At least do something to progress your argument. . This is the sort of logic that is used between union members often to a damaging extent. Have a go at the person, not the issue.
Just because I left the industry doesn't mean I don't still have a passion for aviation. It also doesn't mean I'm not a little empathetic for the friends I left behind. I decided to cut my losses and start anew, following my other passions (no not money 
: finance and economics). Believe it or not, it is possible.
As I said, on holiday I do often indulge in private flying (FLYING being the key term, rather than fiddling with an FMC). Not a bad hobby either
No regrets here.
To each his own...
At least do something to progress your argument. . This is the sort of logic that is used between union members often to a damaging extent. Have a go at the person, not the issue.
Haven't you now?
Or is Bloomeberg.com down?
Or is Bloomeberg.com down?
: finance and economics). Believe it or not, it is possible.As I said, on holiday I do often indulge in private flying (FLYING being the key term, rather than fiddling with an FMC). Not a bad hobby either
No regrets here.
To each his own...
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I agree with bartholomewrose. I too worked G days when I first joined, totally unaware of the effect it was having until I was properly educated. I also got screwed. I suspect this is more an issue of educating our fellow pilots than some kind of 'name and shame' campaign.
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At least do something to progress your argument.
The subject of the thread was closed in post 18 as far as I'm concerned. I'm just still struggling to understand the reason behind your snobbish, defeatist and futile initial post.
And after basically telling us to 'give up, you're all screwed', you still define yourself as: "empathetic to the friends I left behind".
So no argument either on your career change. You really have what it takes to be a banker...
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iron and smiling
If you do the math then you will see that even getting called out at 84 hours off reserve is cheaper than my option of taking a flight at 99 overtime.
so who wins?
and we are not in cc! so it is the same situation we have been for the last 8 years - until we are then so what?
If you do the math then you will see that even getting called out at 84 hours off reserve is cheaper than my option of taking a flight at 99 overtime.
so who wins?
and we are not in cc! so it is the same situation we have been for the last 8 years - until we are then so what?
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Bekol, at least we can go to work and live with ourselves, hope you get off on the investment banking track record, fraudclosure, now thats something to be proud of.
The investment banking ethos is probably why CX is paying less and less, the elite get everything and we fight for the scraps. Banking practices, asset and bubble formations, drive a stake in the heart of pilots renumeration, CX have ample excuses to cut this and reduce that, in the event of the financial crisis which is an ever present threat.
The investment banking ethos is probably why CX is paying less and less, the elite get everything and we fight for the scraps. Banking practices, asset and bubble formations, drive a stake in the heart of pilots renumeration, CX have ample excuses to cut this and reduce that, in the event of the financial crisis which is an ever present threat.
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I'm just still struggling to understand the reason behind your snobbish, defeatist and futile initial post.
you still define yourself as: "empathetic to the friends I left behind".
Breaking out the KY wouldn't be a bad idea. Otherwise, when the reality hits, it won't just be your head that's hurting. The mighty dollar always comes out on top in HK. Surprise, surprise, that is capitalism for you.
Edit: EXEZY - I don't do any of that stuff. The organisation I work for specialises in M&A and ECM, and therefore doesn't have anything to do with the derivatives or dodgy mortgage deals. I was sure to steer away from that
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following my other passions (no not money : finance and economics).
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Guest Post: U.S. Financial Markets: The Well Has Been Poisoned (Anger of the Honest Part II) | zero hedge
Zerohedge, above, is my one stop shop for whenever I need to pin down the fraud and moral hazard in the finance world, don't need an MBA to understand ponzi scheme. As long as helicopter Ben Bernanke keeps printing his trillions, bankers are happy, never mind Joe Bloggs losing his house in Arkansas, due to fraudulent mortgage backed securities. Lets just do another round of QE2 shall we and wipe out more of those bad debts from the balance sheet of JPMorgan et al, that should do it, never mind the fact the US dollar is going to hell in a hand basket and that we'll be facing hyper inflation down the gun barrell in a matter of a few years, knocking millions of your 600 square foot dream flat in Sheung Shat. The universe will catch up with these criminals soon enough.
P.S. Cover your shorts boys, this one is about to get nasty!
Rosenberg On The Revenue-Less, And Now Margin-Less, Recovery | zero hedge
Zerohedge, above, is my one stop shop for whenever I need to pin down the fraud and moral hazard in the finance world, don't need an MBA to understand ponzi scheme. As long as helicopter Ben Bernanke keeps printing his trillions, bankers are happy, never mind Joe Bloggs losing his house in Arkansas, due to fraudulent mortgage backed securities. Lets just do another round of QE2 shall we and wipe out more of those bad debts from the balance sheet of JPMorgan et al, that should do it, never mind the fact the US dollar is going to hell in a hand basket and that we'll be facing hyper inflation down the gun barrell in a matter of a few years, knocking millions of your 600 square foot dream flat in Sheung Shat. The universe will catch up with these criminals soon enough.
P.S. Cover your shorts boys, this one is about to get nasty!
Rosenberg On The Revenue-Less, And Now Margin-Less, Recovery | zero hedge
Last edited by EXEZY; 1st Nov 2010 at 15:25.
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......and the previously mentioned JNB (749) tonight (4 NOVEMBER) goes for nothing less than a............ GDO payment!
Last edited by AD POSSE AD ESSE; 4th Nov 2010 at 11:00.