Aus Onshore: New contract is out
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 12K
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aus Onshore: New contract is out
Check your mail for new CX Aus COS 08 contract. Just reading now.......
edit: 22 days to sign.....nice
edit: 22 days to sign.....nice
Last edited by FO4EVA; 4th May 2010 at 07:01.
yeah, rumour said 2 more weeks before it came out.
No wonder the Basings office didn't answer the phone today, they were a bit busy..........
I await the AOA response..........
No wonder the Basings office didn't answer the phone today, they were a bit busy..........
I await the AOA response..........
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hongkong
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I must say there have been some good points raised on the AOA site in regard to the onshore issue.
When will the AOA lawyers have their findings listed on the AOA site? I understand that they are using a firm that are experts in workplace litigation in Sydney.
To those few out there making employment contract decisions on your own, or basing those decision on what your other non AOA mates reckon...... good luck. I would imagine getting your own legal advice would be substantially more expensive than joining the AOA, but then again you are probably smarter than me!
Then again I guess you could just sign it, I mean shorely the company wouldn't stiff you!
When will the AOA lawyers have their findings listed on the AOA site? I understand that they are using a firm that are experts in workplace litigation in Sydney.
To those few out there making employment contract decisions on your own, or basing those decision on what your other non AOA mates reckon...... good luck. I would imagine getting your own legal advice would be substantially more expensive than joining the AOA, but then again you are probably smarter than me!
Then again I guess you could just sign it, I mean shorely the company wouldn't stiff you!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, who would have thought that the company would place a timeline on us?
Negotiating 101 states that the first thing you do when the other team tries to impose a deadline is to ignore it - just don't even think of addressing this until negotiations have been completed.
Second trick is to bypass the negotiators and go straight to the employees with a vague implication that negotiations have been completed and this is the agreed result - it is blatantly obvious that this is NOT the case and we have been denied some of our protections.
MOST IMPORTANT
Do not sign anything! Consider that your payments to the Australian Tax Office are a subscription fee for the Australian protections and entitlements under law. You have paid for things like:
Long Service Leave
Enterprise Bargaining Agreements
Superfund contributions
Salary Sacrifice arrangements
etc
Would you sign up for a club and pay hefty fees and then be told that you don't get the benefits? No, nor would I.
Don't you just love the arrogance of our beloved company?
JUST DON'T SIGN.
Negotiating 101 states that the first thing you do when the other team tries to impose a deadline is to ignore it - just don't even think of addressing this until negotiations have been completed.
Second trick is to bypass the negotiators and go straight to the employees with a vague implication that negotiations have been completed and this is the agreed result - it is blatantly obvious that this is NOT the case and we have been denied some of our protections.
MOST IMPORTANT
Do not sign anything! Consider that your payments to the Australian Tax Office are a subscription fee for the Australian protections and entitlements under law. You have paid for things like:
Long Service Leave
Enterprise Bargaining Agreements
Superfund contributions
Salary Sacrifice arrangements
etc
Would you sign up for a club and pay hefty fees and then be told that you don't get the benefits? No, nor would I.
Don't you just love the arrogance of our beloved company?
JUST DON'T SIGN.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: lalaland
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A F...ing Disgrace
Commiseration to all our cousins in Aus from fellow recipients of the less than well greased baseball bat delivered via mail by our nineteenth century mill owners.
I think you have been given the advice you require - now just do it!
Here upon these stones
We will build our barricade
In the heart of the city
We claim as our own!
Each man to his duty
And don't be afraid.
Wait! I will need a report
On the strength of the foe.
I can find out the truth
I know their ways
Fought their wars
Served my time
In the day
Of my youth.
Now the people will fight
With apologies to les Miserables
Back to the coffee shop
I think you have been given the advice you require - now just do it!
Here upon these stones
We will build our barricade
In the heart of the city
We claim as our own!
Each man to his duty
And don't be afraid.
Wait! I will need a report
On the strength of the foe.
I can find out the truth
I know their ways
Fought their wars
Served my time
In the day
Of my youth.
Now the people will fight
With apologies to les Miserables
Back to the coffee shop
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Germans and Canadians did
They were told sign or you are fired? Will this not be the same? Again, COS08 was supposed to be for new hires and we all know that was a lie! So my question again is WHEN WILL IT STOP? Does the AOA keep whining about these issues but do nothing about them? Yes, simply DO NOT SIGN IT! But all the Aussies would have to to make it worthwhile. Personally, I do not think it is going to happen. Nothing against the Aussies or the Germans or Canadians but you will sign if you want to have a job or you/we all have to stand up and say NO MORE just like the FAU did.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The time has come to stick together now!
That includes the how do you say "older generation" as well as the new!
Integrity and a little backbone is all that is required!
Maybe that is asking a little to much , if history is anything to go by.
I personally signed up for SLS at the last hour due to the fact I couldnt find one person that wasnt and didnt want to be the only one not taking it. That was a mistake on my part looking back and I needed to have a little more of that backbone I was talking about.
This time I dont care if everyone signs this new contract for whatever reason they deem fit. I simply "WONT SIGN" I have had enough and really will probably be better off if they do fire me and I no longer have to deal with a company that is so lacking in respect for its employees that it makes those blood diamond workers look like a good job!
I have paid my AOA dues for well over a decade and will expect them to go to bat for me when that termination letter comes. Maybe again I am expecting to much. For those of you that sign enjoy that 2 crew through the night on lesser conditions and be sure and do lots of stretching in the cockpit as you near 60 yrs of age to ensure you live to 66! Then with all your money maybe you can get yourself a gold casket like Carl williams and go out like him as someone who sold their soul for money!
That includes the how do you say "older generation" as well as the new!
Integrity and a little backbone is all that is required!
Maybe that is asking a little to much , if history is anything to go by.
I personally signed up for SLS at the last hour due to the fact I couldnt find one person that wasnt and didnt want to be the only one not taking it. That was a mistake on my part looking back and I needed to have a little more of that backbone I was talking about.
This time I dont care if everyone signs this new contract for whatever reason they deem fit. I simply "WONT SIGN" I have had enough and really will probably be better off if they do fire me and I no longer have to deal with a company that is so lacking in respect for its employees that it makes those blood diamond workers look like a good job!
I have paid my AOA dues for well over a decade and will expect them to go to bat for me when that termination letter comes. Maybe again I am expecting to much. For those of you that sign enjoy that 2 crew through the night on lesser conditions and be sure and do lots of stretching in the cockpit as you near 60 yrs of age to ensure you live to 66! Then with all your money maybe you can get yourself a gold casket like Carl williams and go out like him as someone who sold their soul for money!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Age: 47
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
please substitute AOA with Cathay Pilots
I think the AOA is afraid to push things to the point were they ask everyone to take a stand. They are afraid that the membership will not follow. The problem is, without them taking a hard stance, we will continue falling every time we are pushed. It doesn't matter if some take a hard stance, without it coming from the top, it won't do much.
I did not take SLS and watched as 97% of my colleagues did. Even after all the winging that went on at the AOA meetings I attended, the membership was looking for the AOA to tell us not to take it - but they cowered away and capitulated to the company's demands. That made everyone feel that there was no-one behind them as they stood on the frontline.
Ganker, 2 crew during the middle of the night is as a result of the new CAP 371 and the resultant new RP's. Crew members will be subject to them regardless of whether they are on COS 99 or COS 08.
But lets not let fact get in the way of a good rant !
Integrity , backbone and a dash of common sense is what is required. Those of you based in Aus and paying Aus tax are already subject to Aus employment protections, and a quick call to the local TWU office will confirm such. Should you freely give away your rights by signing, then all bets are off. Wait for further from your representatives and leave the emotive and misleading comments to those non members who are prone to do a little fishing to allay their fears.
But lets not let fact get in the way of a good rant !
Integrity , backbone and a dash of common sense is what is required. Those of you based in Aus and paying Aus tax are already subject to Aus employment protections, and a quick call to the local TWU office will confirm such. Should you freely give away your rights by signing, then all bets are off. Wait for further from your representatives and leave the emotive and misleading comments to those non members who are prone to do a little fishing to allay their fears.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time for some backbone. The Aus law is on our side, they are trying to get us to sign away our rights through intimidation.
In times like these, I read at take heart from this missive which I got from this website a few years ago. Paticularly relevant in the aftermath of CX
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS!
How many boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?
How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?
How many buses cost $250 million dollars?
How many doctors spend half the month away from their families?
Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?
How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?
How many Lab technicians have to retire because their eyesight isn’t perfect?
When your wife is watching TV and the program is interrupted by a news flash of an aircraft accident, does she momentarily freeze in fear for what she might hear?
There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.
THE PRICE
I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo hold
I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick
I pay the price when loaders forget to set the locks
I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump not quite correctly and the aircraft explodes
I pay the price when Mother Nature decides to shift the winds and turn me over on my belly
I pay the price when my family splits because I am away so much
I pay the price when the technology goes wrong
YOU SPEAK OF THE COST
Ask the CEO of Value and the cost of a DC-9 buried in the Everglades..
The Cost …Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at Steward and Newark...
The Cost ...Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway at Guam..
The Cost ...Ask Mandarin airlines the cost of a typhoon turning an MD11 upside down when it landed into Hong Kong
The Cost ...Ask Pan Am the cost when a bomb blew up a 747 over Lockerbie
The Cost ...Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami Street
The Cost ...Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Columbian mountain...
The Cost ...And if not for their Cool, Calm, Professionalism, what could have been the cost of a Cathay Pacific 747 with one engine alight plunging into the harbour. How much were they worth to you that night?
The Cost …What would have been the cost when the British Airways 747 full of passengers lost ALL 4 engines in volcanic ash over Indonesia. The chances of relighting those engines was ZERO yet the pilots got a few going and saved everyone – What were they worth to you that day? Still Glorified overpaid Bus Drivers?
WHEN YOU TRY TO INTIMIDATE ME, REMEMBER
It was I who sits alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I am catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you slept peacefully in your bed
It was I who, one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Saturday night football drinking your beer and wine
It was I who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree and went to church in 1989
It was I who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN
It was I who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours
It was I who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you and your children
It was I who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers in your garden blossom
It was I who buried a friend
It is I who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his Dad, so that you may play with your grandchild
Sir, please don 't try to intimidate me I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset that has experienced and accomplished things few others dare to try. Realize this and there are few obstacles we can't overcome.[/FONT]
In times like these, I read at take heart from this missive which I got from this website a few years ago. Paticularly relevant in the aftermath of CX
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS!
How many boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?
How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?
How many buses cost $250 million dollars?
How many doctors spend half the month away from their families?
Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?
How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?
How many Lab technicians have to retire because their eyesight isn’t perfect?
When your wife is watching TV and the program is interrupted by a news flash of an aircraft accident, does she momentarily freeze in fear for what she might hear?
There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.
THE PRICE
I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo hold
I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick
I pay the price when loaders forget to set the locks
I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump not quite correctly and the aircraft explodes
I pay the price when Mother Nature decides to shift the winds and turn me over on my belly
I pay the price when my family splits because I am away so much
I pay the price when the technology goes wrong
YOU SPEAK OF THE COST
Ask the CEO of Value and the cost of a DC-9 buried in the Everglades..
The Cost …Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at Steward and Newark...
The Cost ...Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway at Guam..
The Cost ...Ask Mandarin airlines the cost of a typhoon turning an MD11 upside down when it landed into Hong Kong
The Cost ...Ask Pan Am the cost when a bomb blew up a 747 over Lockerbie
The Cost ...Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami Street
The Cost ...Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Columbian mountain...
The Cost ...And if not for their Cool, Calm, Professionalism, what could have been the cost of a Cathay Pacific 747 with one engine alight plunging into the harbour. How much were they worth to you that night?
The Cost …What would have been the cost when the British Airways 747 full of passengers lost ALL 4 engines in volcanic ash over Indonesia. The chances of relighting those engines was ZERO yet the pilots got a few going and saved everyone – What were they worth to you that day? Still Glorified overpaid Bus Drivers?
WHEN YOU TRY TO INTIMIDATE ME, REMEMBER
It was I who sits alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I am catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you slept peacefully in your bed
It was I who, one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Saturday night football drinking your beer and wine
It was I who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree and went to church in 1989
It was I who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN
It was I who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours
It was I who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you and your children
It was I who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers in your garden blossom
It was I who buried a friend
It is I who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his Dad, so that you may play with your grandchild
Sir, please don 't try to intimidate me I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset that has experienced and accomplished things few others dare to try. Realize this and there are few obstacles we can't overcome.[/FONT]
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well that has to be the biggest load of boll***s I have read in a long while - you forgot to talk about parting the seas and multiplying the loaves and fishes.... But you are right, most of the things you mention could have been prevented by paying the crews more money. It's a shame people don't give you more respect - you obviously think you deserve it.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: can't remember, I'm too tired
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
calm
calm down
Let's just get it onshore first.
As far as I'm aware you can't actually sign away your legislated rights. (regardless of what the contract says)
Let's just get it onshore first.
As far as I'm aware you can't actually sign away your legislated rights. (regardless of what the contract says)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Usually Somewhere Else
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Disagree,
We shouldn't be going for the aim to "just get it onshore first", and then fighting a rearguard action. We should press to test in the courts of Australia before hand and delay the signing date until it's resolved. I think there's a fairly high level of confidence that given we're deemed Australian employees etc for tax after last years court case, that we'd be protected now under Aus employment laws.
Personally I'd rather go on the attack now rather than play defence once we're onshore.
We shouldn't be going for the aim to "just get it onshore first", and then fighting a rearguard action. We should press to test in the courts of Australia before hand and delay the signing date until it's resolved. I think there's a fairly high level of confidence that given we're deemed Australian employees etc for tax after last years court case, that we'd be protected now under Aus employment laws.
Personally I'd rather go on the attack now rather than play defence once we're onshore.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hongkong
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The constructive criticism of the companies "non legal" contract is on the AOA forum. There is some good guidance there.
For the record, I have argued with many of you but funily enough all my complaints have been removed??? who's running this site?
BP
For the record, I have argued with many of you but funily enough all my complaints have been removed??? who's running this site?
BP
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Smogsville
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sqwak,
I too thought the GC should have recommended a 'NO', I can only imagine they were privy to more information than the membership or had a plan for the future.
I did not take SLS and watched as 97% of my colleagues did. Even after all the winging that went on at the AOA meetings I attended, the membership was looking for the AOA to tell us not to take it - but they cowered away and capitulated to the company's demands. That made everyone feel that there was no-one behind them as they stood on the frontline.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well if they did know more than us , for gods sake tell us! we arnt little children although management would disagree.
If the AOA give a whishy washy do what you think is right answer to this all, I am out. Whats the point? all the join and be a solid group is just smoke and mirrors if they actually dont stick up for crew when it counts.
If the AOA give a whishy washy do what you think is right answer to this all, I am out. Whats the point? all the join and be a solid group is just smoke and mirrors if they actually dont stick up for crew when it counts.