HKA runway incursion HKG
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Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Ok Tsimbeit, geographically confused on taxi ways.
Has anyone considered that Singaporeans are notoriously bad at ground navigation (Taipei, now HKG) because all they ever have to do at home is "Follow The Greens?" Has the automated taxi system made them incapable of reading a 10-9 chart? A genuine question, I think it may be a contributing factor if in fact the guys were ex singas.
Sorry to introduce a genuine question into such an emotive discussion.
Good work ATC for.... Well, for bloody everything really!
Has anyone considered that Singaporeans are notoriously bad at ground navigation (Taipei, now HKG) because all they ever have to do at home is "Follow The Greens?" Has the automated taxi system made them incapable of reading a 10-9 chart? A genuine question, I think it may be a contributing factor if in fact the guys were ex singas.
Sorry to introduce a genuine question into such an emotive discussion.
Good work ATC for.... Well, for bloody everything really!
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tsimbeit....your splitting hairs there arent you mate? Tell me, if the 777 had continued and the left wing went thru the cockpit of the HKA, (thereby eliminating 2 oxygen thieves), what would you call that? The simple fact is, they got lost, again, at their home port, and nearly caused a major accident.
I await the next Jepp update with all those red "hotspot" cirlces completely surrounding HKIA....
I await the next Jepp update with all those red "hotspot" cirlces completely surrounding HKIA....
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From: Hong Kong Airlines
To: Fragrant Forum Members
As the management representative from Hong Kong Airlines, I must express my strong disagreement and outrage over the continuing slander and innuendo directed at my airline in this forum. We therefore will clarify the following points:
1. On this alleged "runway incursion", we admit our pilots aren't the brightest or the most capable. But you must understand their background. Back where they are from, a taxiway is no different from a runway, so they are easily confused. They can takeoff in whichever direction they like. They are just exporting their method to HKG. What's wrong with that? This saves us the trouble and expense of actually training them. They can rely on their "gut" instincts. Besides, the standard of our pilots can be used as good training for the fine ATC folks here. They help to make sure the ATC are on their toes.
2. Watch out over some of the more nasty comments you are making. We have mainland "connections". We can easily order some of our pla/intelligence "comrades" to come down here and "sort" you guys out. Muhahahaha (evil laugh).
3. Do you honest believe we give a #$%% about what you think? If we want, we have the "power" to force a "change" in your career. How about flying a banana cargo plane to Somalia? I bet those pirates there could used some pilots to fly their loot. Muhahahahaha. (More evil laugh).
Best Regards,
Hong Kong Airlines-We ARE going to scew you.
P.S-This is a parody.
To: Fragrant Forum Members
As the management representative from Hong Kong Airlines, I must express my strong disagreement and outrage over the continuing slander and innuendo directed at my airline in this forum. We therefore will clarify the following points:
1. On this alleged "runway incursion", we admit our pilots aren't the brightest or the most capable. But you must understand their background. Back where they are from, a taxiway is no different from a runway, so they are easily confused. They can takeoff in whichever direction they like. They are just exporting their method to HKG. What's wrong with that? This saves us the trouble and expense of actually training them. They can rely on their "gut" instincts. Besides, the standard of our pilots can be used as good training for the fine ATC folks here. They help to make sure the ATC are on their toes.
2. Watch out over some of the more nasty comments you are making. We have mainland "connections". We can easily order some of our pla/intelligence "comrades" to come down here and "sort" you guys out. Muhahahaha (evil laugh).
3. Do you honest believe we give a #$%% about what you think? If we want, we have the "power" to force a "change" in your career. How about flying a banana cargo plane to Somalia? I bet those pirates there could used some pilots to fly their loot. Muhahahahaha. (More evil laugh).
Best Regards,
Hong Kong Airlines-We ARE going to scew you.
P.S-This is a parody.
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One morning in KL airspace the Cathay guys sounded like an Aussie cant even readback the STAR clearance and in PEN,ATC had to tell the Cathay guys twice the ATC clearance,they cant readback the airways correctly.6 for the ENGLISH.(so called)
KITEFLY76
Nice try attempting to deflect the topic away from what is a discussion about HKA to a discussion about CX and the poor standards of ATC in KUL.
Maybe it’s the KUL ATC that needs to look closely at their level of English and how they use it with native English speakers. Deviation from standard ICAO RT and you are asking for trouble. That goes for pilots and ATC. I’ve been in there more times than I can count and the standards of ATC leave a lot to be desired.
Nice try attempting to deflect the topic away from what is a discussion about HKA to a discussion about CX and the poor standards of ATC in KUL.
Maybe it’s the KUL ATC that needs to look closely at their level of English and how they use it with native English speakers. Deviation from standard ICAO RT and you are asking for trouble. That goes for pilots and ATC. I’ve been in there more times than I can count and the standards of ATC leave a lot to be desired.
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KITEFLY76
You talk about English standards in your post, yet I had to read it 3 times to understand what you were saying! Classic case of the "Pot calling the Kettle black"
You talk about English standards in your post, yet I had to read it 3 times to understand what you were saying! Classic case of the "Pot calling the Kettle black"
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if the 777 had continued and the left wing went thru the cockpit of the HKA, (thereby eliminating 2 oxygen thieves), what would you call that?
tsimbeit
I suggest you go and buy a packet of sliced Swiss Cheese and kiss that last slice for not allowing all the holes to line up again. Unless you guys lift your standards significantly though, those holes will eventually line up and claim some poor unsuspecting people their lives.
The point I am making is the red stop bar lights were the last slice in the Swiss Cheese. Again it prevented what could have been a fatal accident. Any reputable airline strives not to go near even the first layer while it would appear your airline is quite happy to use it as an error filter.
I suggest you go and buy a packet of sliced Swiss Cheese and kiss that last slice for not allowing all the holes to line up again. Unless you guys lift your standards significantly though, those holes will eventually line up and claim some poor unsuspecting people their lives.
The point I am making is the red stop bar lights were the last slice in the Swiss Cheese. Again it prevented what could have been a fatal accident. Any reputable airline strives not to go near even the first layer while it would appear your airline is quite happy to use it as an error filter.
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I think Tsembit said,
What a display of spitefulness or gloating.
HK aviation has been blessed with a bunch of know it all/smartalecs with a ubermenschen
mentality.( I don't think it's complimentary)
The english bit.Haven't got a clue.
What a display of spitefulness or gloating.
HK aviation has been blessed with a bunch of know it all/smartalecs with a ubermenschen
mentality.( I don't think it's complimentary)The english bit.Haven't got a clue.
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HKAdaily,
There's a fine line between arrogance and confidence. I would like to think a CX pre-requisite is confidence. 
.
All pilots make mistakes. I have a logbook full of "I ain't never going to do that again." I've seen CX do some things that caused me to pause. Last winter at KJFK I saw one of the CX B777s taxing out for take off with a load of snow on it. Another aircraft and the tower said something to them about it. At first CX ignored the comments (arrogrance ?), then the voice of reason came over the radio (different than the first voice) and said two things "We'd like to return to the gate and thanks to the aircraft that told us about the snow."
This is not a criticism of CX, just a comment. I do a lot of commuting on CX.
BS
I must disagree about your comment on 'arrogance'. Arrogance is a pre-requisite at CX and we have never killed anyone
.All pilots make mistakes. I have a logbook full of "I ain't never going to do that again." I've seen CX do some things that caused me to pause. Last winter at KJFK I saw one of the CX B777s taxing out for take off with a load of snow on it. Another aircraft and the tower said something to them about it. At first CX ignored the comments (arrogrance ?), then the voice of reason came over the radio (different than the first voice) and said two things "We'd like to return to the gate and thanks to the aircraft that told us about the snow."
This is not a criticism of CX, just a comment. I do a lot of commuting on CX.
BS
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CX pilots are indisputably the best (in terms of skills/airmanship) in the industry. There is not a single disaster occur since the 70's bombing in CX history. It's an insult to compared CX with HX No one of sound mind would brought up such comparison.
They are what they paid for. HX pilots are not treated and paid decently and how could all of us expect they will put their heart and sound mind to work!!! The worst is to put those scumbags Singaporeans to run the management Double whammy!
HX is going to be doomed for sure. But when? I am waiting for the demise of HX fairly soon. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they won't endanger the life of others before their official closure.
No one of sound mind would brought up such comparison.They are what they paid for. HX pilots are not treated and paid decently and how could all of us expect they will put their heart and sound mind to work!!! The worst is to put those scumbags Singaporeans to run the management
Double whammy!HX is going to be doomed for sure. But when? I am waiting for the demise of HX fairly soon. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they won't endanger the life of others before their official closure.
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lowkoon
Has anyone considered that Singaporeans are notoriously bad at ground navigation (Taipei, now HKG)
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Titan 404
Maybe it’s the KUL ATC that needs to look closely at their level of English and how they use it with native English speakers. Deviation from standard ICAO RT and you are asking for trouble. That goes for pilots and ATC. I’ve been in there more times than I can count and the standards of ATC leave a lot to be desired.
Maybe it was CX crew that's having trouble understanding ATC on that given day. I have flown many times into Australia and many times the standard of AUS ATC has a room for an improvements.
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Sadly, Miss Pauline Kee could not even secure her GM HR job even though she had been so faithful to the bosses : executing the sacking of all comptent staff, implementing the famous apothegm and doing tonnes of dirty works.........
etops777
You won’t get any argument from me about Australian ATC. It’s the second best ATC system in the world after all.
Regarding KUL ATC. They are generally OK except sometimes they speak way too quickly. With their Malay accent it can at times be difficult to understand them, especially if you haven’t been in there for a while. If you don’t understand them you ask them to say it again. It is the only safe thing to do.
tsimbeit
Do you have a problem focussing? This is a thread about your airline, not about some psycho babble and fairies at the bottom of the garden. Your airline came within a few metres of causing a disaster and you can’t see their failings. What if the stop bar lights were off? They sometimes are. HKG is your airlines home port after all. This is a failing by the crew on the day but more importantly it has exposed a gaping hole in your airlines culture when you (presumably a manager there) cann't even see these failings.
I don’t and have never worked for HKA so therefore I have no axe to grind with them. We all make mistakes. It is how you deal with these mistakes that will determine whether you will learn from them.
You won’t get any argument from me about Australian ATC. It’s the second best ATC system in the world after all.
Regarding KUL ATC. They are generally OK except sometimes they speak way too quickly. With their Malay accent it can at times be difficult to understand them, especially if you haven’t been in there for a while. If you don’t understand them you ask them to say it again. It is the only safe thing to do.
tsimbeit
Do you have a problem focussing? This is a thread about your airline, not about some psycho babble and fairies at the bottom of the garden. Your airline came within a few metres of causing a disaster and you can’t see their failings. What if the stop bar lights were off? They sometimes are. HKG is your airlines home port after all. This is a failing by the crew on the day but more importantly it has exposed a gaping hole in your airlines culture when you (presumably a manager there) cann't even see these failings.
I don’t and have never worked for HKA so therefore I have no axe to grind with them. We all make mistakes. It is how you deal with these mistakes that will determine whether you will learn from them.
Last edited by 404 Titan; 1st Feb 2010 at 01:41.
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404 Titan
The best ATC in the world......Got to be USA....very practical, logical way of handling traffics in 1 of the busiest airport/airspace in the world. UNDISPUTED, PERIOD
The best ATC in the world......Got to be USA....very practical, logical way of handling traffics in 1 of the busiest airport/airspace in the world. UNDISPUTED, PERIOD
