You Scruffy Bu**ers!
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Despite the unavoidable bickering, I believe the OP's sentiment is still valid.
Last year we endured paycuts, a host of contract incompliances that led us to court in cases that the management would rather shut the whole thing down rather than see us win, at the end of the year everybody who works for CX got a payrise, except us pilots, and of course the constant belittling.
And to cap all of that off, our dear GMA takes time during the holiday season to come up with a nice NTC to tell us all how to correctly wear the HK$ 20 Sham Shui Po uniform, since apparently we aren't able to dress properly on our own either, like the bunch of half-retard school kids they consider us to be...
Gee! Thanks a lot, there, mister boss sir...
Last year we endured paycuts, a host of contract incompliances that led us to court in cases that the management would rather shut the whole thing down rather than see us win, at the end of the year everybody who works for CX got a payrise, except us pilots, and of course the constant belittling.
And to cap all of that off, our dear GMA takes time during the holiday season to come up with a nice NTC to tell us all how to correctly wear the HK$ 20 Sham Shui Po uniform, since apparently we aren't able to dress properly on our own either, like the bunch of half-retard school kids they consider us to be...
Gee! Thanks a lot, there, mister boss sir...
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Irrespective what the Vol 1 says, if it is cold, ill wear my jacket, if it isnt i wont...prertty simple really.
Only sheep would voluntarily wear their jacket because someone told them to and it is 30 degrees outside!
Only sheep would voluntarily wear their jacket because someone told them to and it is 30 degrees outside!
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In part I have to agree. I wear my uniform whenever I am in view of the public, ie the terminal. As soon as I am on the train, the tie, epaulettes, etc all come off or another jumper goes on. I have seen guys wearing their jacket, undone and without a tie. It does look weird and unprofessional.
Yes the uniform is not the best, but is it all the poor company can afford.
I have even had my jacket tailored privately as it was so poorly fitted (I don't think the company tailor did anything to it regardless of how many times I took in back), and I am considering doing the same with the pants and shirts.
As for me wearing the jacket because the captain does, well, why can't I decide if I am hot or cold? Like others have said, it is very difficult when flying with based guys as to what they are going to do. Summer here, winter there, and vis versa. There are even some that wear it regardless of if it is cold simply because they didn't want to iron their shirt. I am a grown adult, I can make my own decisions about if I will wear my jacket. Oh wait a minute. I am not supposed to think apparently.
I do not agree with the timing and intent of the NTC though. I feel like there are more pressing matters to write about. Reminds me of a old Sergeant or something. When moral is down, or things are bad, he would give the old "grooming standards" treatment as a means to redirect focus.
Yes the uniform is not the best, but is it all the poor company can afford.
I have even had my jacket tailored privately as it was so poorly fitted (I don't think the company tailor did anything to it regardless of how many times I took in back), and I am considering doing the same with the pants and shirts. As for me wearing the jacket because the captain does, well, why can't I decide if I am hot or cold? Like others have said, it is very difficult when flying with based guys as to what they are going to do. Summer here, winter there, and vis versa. There are even some that wear it regardless of if it is cold simply because they didn't want to iron their shirt. I am a grown adult, I can make my own decisions about if I will wear my jacket. Oh wait a minute. I am not supposed to think apparently.
I do not agree with the timing and intent of the NTC though. I feel like there are more pressing matters to write about. Reminds me of a old Sergeant or something. When moral is down, or things are bad, he would give the old "grooming standards" treatment as a means to redirect focus.
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End of a year with SLS, no 13th month, no pay rise (again), lawsuits en masse,no commands, no basings and a very uncertain future.
And then this : a senior management pilot gives me a New Year resolution regarding how to wear my uniform.
He probably wouldn't even talk to his children in such a patronizing manner.
Nothing on earth could describe the hopeless mindset of the dear leaders in this company better.
Unbelievable.
And then this : a senior management pilot gives me a New Year resolution regarding how to wear my uniform.
He probably wouldn't even talk to his children in such a patronizing manner.
Nothing on earth could describe the hopeless mindset of the dear leaders in this company better.
Unbelievable.
Last edited by sisyphos; 1st Jan 2010 at 10:57.
The Reverend
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Many of you have obviously missed out on the best years of flying for Cathay and did not have the pleasure of flying with an illustrious captain, the son of a famous man who designed and built the first jet engine. Woe befall the poor F/O who had the temerity to remove the bamboo hoop in his new hat and be rostered to fly with said captain! Not coming to fly as my crew, in this shameful manner, he was told. Upon which the hapless F/O made his way to the uniform section to book out a new hat, the issue of which was denied as he had already used up his issue. However F/Os not being stupid, he booked one out on the captains hat allowance and duly reported for the continuation of his duty.
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Brings back memories of dress standards bollockings worthy of an old drill instructor I had. I can't remember Ian ever giving me a serve for my dress standards, however, I do remember another worthy 'wtf'....
On taxi-ing out with a former 74 skipper (GTG - for those that remember, Bali IIRC, Wife/ ID90/ back to FO - say no more), I removed my tie, only to be asked " What are you doing???" rapid checks of what switches I last touched revealed no apparent stuff ups, so admitted "I don't know"
To be told, "well what would happen if we aborted, evacuated and were seen wandering around the wreckage with no tie, wouldn't this look unprofessional?"
I think that would have been the last thing on my mind whilst surveying burning body parts.
As for the 'reverend' who issued the letter, my dad told me to never trust a man who didn't drink.
As for religion, well if you need it use it, but don't point it in my direction.
Overall, timing could have been better, and considering the aspect of 'those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones', I thought a poorly thought out management missive.
Now if they said easy on the hair product and lay off the earings and piercings, then as an oldie, that would have my vote
BUT - we are given a uniform, we don't make the rules, we just have to follow them. So how hard is it for us just to look neat & tidy without having to be told. Come on guys, this is bread & butter stuff, let's just wear it like we are meant to and look the part. If you want to go alternate, wear flouro undies, pink socks or a prince albert, but the parts that the great unwashed get to see, should present us as a group, in a professsional light or we do ourselves a disservice.
On taxi-ing out with a former 74 skipper (GTG - for those that remember, Bali IIRC, Wife/ ID90/ back to FO - say no more), I removed my tie, only to be asked " What are you doing???" rapid checks of what switches I last touched revealed no apparent stuff ups, so admitted "I don't know"
To be told, "well what would happen if we aborted, evacuated and were seen wandering around the wreckage with no tie, wouldn't this look unprofessional?"
I think that would have been the last thing on my mind whilst surveying burning body parts.
As for the 'reverend' who issued the letter, my dad told me to never trust a man who didn't drink.
As for religion, well if you need it use it, but don't point it in my direction.
Overall, timing could have been better, and considering the aspect of 'those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones', I thought a poorly thought out management missive.
Now if they said easy on the hair product and lay off the earings and piercings, then as an oldie, that would have my vote
BUT - we are given a uniform, we don't make the rules, we just have to follow them. So how hard is it for us just to look neat & tidy without having to be told. Come on guys, this is bread & butter stuff, let's just wear it like we are meant to and look the part. If you want to go alternate, wear flouro undies, pink socks or a prince albert, but the parts that the great unwashed get to see, should present us as a group, in a professsional light or we do ourselves a disservice.
Last edited by LongTimeInCX; 1st Jan 2010 at 13:02.
Does no-one remember that in the early 80`s the Line Check report forms had a column for " Grooming and Deportment"!? Old Pat R*****l gave me a "C" for a scruffy hat. The mentioned "Hat Captain" received quite a few bamboo hat hoops in his mailbox if memory serves me right.
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Mapleleaf
We work for a bunch of p####s whom most of us don't give a s##t about anymore ....seriously we don't , take your professional very nice rant and go have a pale ale and think about it , cx don't care about you why should you care about them ?
professionalism has nothing to do about it...the times have changed where have you been ? on your base somewhere?
Respect is a 2 way street, think about it caps make no diff
Most of us do not wear it because we can't stand the company we are working for, not with.
professionalism has nothing to do about it...the times have changed where have you been ? on your base somewhere?
Respect is a 2 way street, think about it caps make no diff
Most of us do not wear it because we can't stand the company we are working for, not with.
Last edited by goathead; 1st Jan 2010 at 15:01.
YOU...
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Maple Leaf.
On The uniform issue I am with you 100 percent.
So much is being taken from our profession by the bean counters that we have to make a stand.
It doesn't take HC to remind me of the significance of my uniform but his religious views are not part of this.
I am proud of my uniform.
I spent a lot of time trying to get the opportunity to wear it and I wear it with pride.
Come on guys do you remember when you applied for the job?
You were over the moon when you were accepted.
Management are on a campaign to reduce your status.
They have employed several tactics.
Now I have heard hats are to go.
Next thing is that the 9 to 5's will arrive with 5 stripes and a bigger hat.
As Maple Leaf implies "Wear it with pride guys" what is the alternative that you prefer?
On The uniform issue I am with you 100 percent.
So much is being taken from our profession by the bean counters that we have to make a stand.
It doesn't take HC to remind me of the significance of my uniform but his religious views are not part of this.
I am proud of my uniform.
I spent a lot of time trying to get the opportunity to wear it and I wear it with pride.
Come on guys do you remember when you applied for the job?
You were over the moon when you were accepted.
Management are on a campaign to reduce your status.
They have employed several tactics.
Now I have heard hats are to go.
Next thing is that the 9 to 5's will arrive with 5 stripes and a bigger hat.
As Maple Leaf implies "Wear it with pride guys" what is the alternative that you prefer?
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All of you that talk about wearing the uniform "with pride" were probably the first spineless bunch to sign up for SLS and the first ones to believe the lies that are told to you on a daily basis. You keep quoting how many have worn this uniform with pride and that we have professionalism to uphold. The people who wore the uniform before you and actually stood up for the profession would spit in your face after the sad performance you have delivered when faced with adversity (49ers, COS08, SLS). People who risked their jobs and stood at the front line would be ashamed to call you lot their "collegues". Don't think that because you wear your uniform all neat and according to Vol 1 that you have even a fraction of professionalism. Your actions are what define you, not your dress.
I tell you what lets me walk with pride. Knowing that I do not run away with my tail between my legs when faced with a challenge to uphold my profession. Knowing that I did not take SLS nor will I ever until I see honesty from my leaders. Knowing that I show up to my checkrides well prepared to do my job - not prepared to stroke that particular checker's ego. I also know that I do not work for free and that time spent with my family is very valuable to me, way more than a G-day callout or a roster disruption. I might not wear my hat or my coat when it is too hot, but I certainly have no problem walking with my head held high. I doubt a lot of you can say the same.
Clothes don't make a man (or a woman). So stop thinking you can make up for your lack of professionalism and dignity by putting on a silly hat or jacket (regardless of wether it is a uniform or a suit). Grow a pair and start acting professional regardless of how you look. That will do much more to improve your self image than just looking the part.
I tell you what lets me walk with pride. Knowing that I do not run away with my tail between my legs when faced with a challenge to uphold my profession. Knowing that I did not take SLS nor will I ever until I see honesty from my leaders. Knowing that I show up to my checkrides well prepared to do my job - not prepared to stroke that particular checker's ego. I also know that I do not work for free and that time spent with my family is very valuable to me, way more than a G-day callout or a roster disruption. I might not wear my hat or my coat when it is too hot, but I certainly have no problem walking with my head held high. I doubt a lot of you can say the same.
Clothes don't make a man (or a woman). So stop thinking you can make up for your lack of professionalism and dignity by putting on a silly hat or jacket (regardless of wether it is a uniform or a suit). Grow a pair and start acting professional regardless of how you look. That will do much more to improve your self image than just looking the part.
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Sqwak 7700
Now THAT is a good post. You realize 100% of responders will talk with you but not walk with you Sqwak.
Just look at the A.O.A. list of jellyfish that had no back bone during the 49er case. I have the empty bank account to prove my 5% contribution to my profession and the protection of my contract.
Now THAT is a good post. You realize 100% of responders will talk with you but not walk with you Sqwak.
Just look at the A.O.A. list of jellyfish that had no back bone during the 49er case. I have the empty bank account to prove my 5% contribution to my profession and the protection of my contract.
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I would hope that the CX uniform does not come to resemble the Virgin Blue issue ie. no hat, no tie, and brown pants ???
I have always worn my uniform with pride in my profession and will continue to do so. It presents a very clear image to the traveling public who are by and large clueless as to what goes on in the sharp end.
Tend to agree with most posts regarding the CX pilot management though, some of our esteemed leaders(tossers) would be better suited to giving sermons from the pullpit and presiding over the odd confession before dutyfully administering the required strokes of the rattan cane.
I have always worn my uniform with pride in my profession and will continue to do so. It presents a very clear image to the traveling public who are by and large clueless as to what goes on in the sharp end.
Tend to agree with most posts regarding the CX pilot management though, some of our esteemed leaders(tossers) would be better suited to giving sermons from the pullpit and presiding over the odd confession before dutyfully administering the required strokes of the rattan cane.
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Sqwak
Good post and I agree with you on a number of points. The problem still remains though that we don't have 100% of the pilots who think the way you do and until that happens we'll always vulnerable to what's happened in the past. Those who decided that the AOA could no longer represent their views and either quit or defected did nothing but weaken our negotiating position and that still remains the case today.
So are you saying that those who are smartly dressed are unprofessional or are not prepared to defend our professional standing? The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
Beta
So what? Has it achieved anything other than to allow you to write the above comment? Seriously, if it has you have to let me know because I'd be interested to find out how your contract is better than mine.
I've heard that somewhere before and when we were all walking together 49 guys were fired because we then lived in a place with skewed labour laws. Maybe times are changing and instead of all this bloody "my d*ck's bigger than yours" nonsense that it appears that most contributors to this forum seem to relish, we should make every effort to get some sort of unity going so that we at least have a chance of fighting our corner.
Anyway, after all of that, I wear my uniform as smartly as the shoddy quality will allow (as someone else said, bring back W W Chan) and I try to be as professional as I can and I try my best to defend our professional standing.
STP
Good post and I agree with you on a number of points. The problem still remains though that we don't have 100% of the pilots who think the way you do and until that happens we'll always vulnerable to what's happened in the past. Those who decided that the AOA could no longer represent their views and either quit or defected did nothing but weaken our negotiating position and that still remains the case today.
So stop thinking you can make up for your lack of professionalism and dignity by putting on a silly hat or jacket
Beta
I have the empty bank account to prove my 5% contribution to my profession and the protection of my contract.
....will talk with you but not walk with you....
Anyway, after all of that, I wear my uniform as smartly as the shoddy quality will allow (as someone else said, bring back W W Chan) and I try to be as professional as I can and I try my best to defend our professional standing.
STP
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Clarify this....
Wow !
First we have constant expectation management and now we are being given our New Year's Resolutions !!
Oh and the guy wearing the jeans, called in off a G day, not at home, and could not get home to get uniform so was Ok'd to fly in civies !!
What is wrong with having one or more crew in the jacket and one or more without. Punters will still see only well dressed professionals, so what if they do not "match". I am sure the folks in the back don't think..."well if the Captain forgot his jacket...what else is he going to forget ??"
Also, I guess we now have the "Hair" police to add to the Hat and Tie police.
Not long before they publish grooming standards. I can see the Notice to Crew now....." and if you are having trouble getting your hair cut to the proper length, we will gladly book an appointment for you in the CX street Barber after a quick chat..."
I have plenty of pride in the profession, just not the employer.
Now can we get back to how unprofessional the company has been acting in the courts, and with our contracts ??
Happy New Year !!
First we have constant expectation management and now we are being given our New Year's Resolutions !!
Oh and the guy wearing the jeans, called in off a G day, not at home, and could not get home to get uniform so was Ok'd to fly in civies !!
What is wrong with having one or more crew in the jacket and one or more without. Punters will still see only well dressed professionals, so what if they do not "match". I am sure the folks in the back don't think..."well if the Captain forgot his jacket...what else is he going to forget ??"
Also, I guess we now have the "Hair" police to add to the Hat and Tie police.
Not long before they publish grooming standards. I can see the Notice to Crew now....." and if you are having trouble getting your hair cut to the proper length, we will gladly book an appointment for you in the CX street Barber after a quick chat..."
I have plenty of pride in the profession, just not the employer.
Now can we get back to how unprofessional the company has been acting in the courts, and with our contracts ??
Happy New Year !!
