AOA to approve SLS

[FOCX]

The AOA's latest email supports SLS. The more surprising point is the change of language. In the past they have tackled managements description of "these very trying times" wrt the fuel prices/GFC etc, now they seem to agree as the latest email is using similar language.

I don't actually disagree with the AOA supporting the SLS if they believe that the trade-offs make it worthwhile, however, why not just drop the bs. The change from disputing the weekly company emails to copying it just looks crass. I don't think we need to accept the reasoning behind the SLS or even mentioning it if signing off on it provides some sort of industrial gain to offset it.

[Flap10]

yup nothing will ever change with the AoA! For weeks the updates had an aggressive tone to them, now I realize it was solely a sales pitch to increase membership numbers. At the first sign of confrontation, they (we) whimper and bow with our tails between our knees. Shame!

[Fenwicksgirl]

See this for what it is, the best of two evils, thats all!!
Most people i have talked to are ok with SLS, hence the AOA's position on that. Whether we think the company deserves it or not does not matter!!!
The improvements are minor but they are there, the alternative would have been SLS with no deal!! We at least have some gains!
You have to look deeper into this to understand the rationale to this, it is so easy to post here and whinge about everything but what is the best thing for the future??? What are the alternatives, it's sooo easy to be negative but how about some positive alternatives then???
SLS was no matter what the AOA did. The deal the company initially offerred was alot worst, so what have we lost or what have we gained???
It is still an individual choice and the AOA is only supporting SLS and the small improvements to CoS08 including the housing deal etc....

[goathead]

I RETRACT MY COMMENTS SHAME ON ME
APOLOGIES

[CokeZero]

Let's wait until the revised SLS contract is out and the GC talk to us before we all jump to conclusions.

[Air Profit]

I can safely say that this will probably spell the end of the AOA. The company has finally managed to neuter the organisation. Congrats to NR and TT. The Sultans of Chaos. I hope your happy with the results. .

[Free Flight]

Just like most addicts, the answer to dependency and the inevitable desire to continue that dependency is simple:

JUST SAY "NO"

[Flaps10]

The big worry I have about SLS is that it sets a precedence.

Will we have to foot the bill for the companies future cockups as well (fines and hedging mistakes)?

What happens in 6-12 months if the economy is still dragging it's feet? Will we see redundancies then? We junior crew members will have paid our SLS dues and then will still be faced with a job loss.

Why is it that companies like SIA are only asking it's crews for a couple of days lwop when CX is asking for up to a month? Sounds greedy to me.

Times may be tough, but isn't that why the company has billions stashed away?

How is it that the union is supporting SLS without a membership vote?

I hope they call out the riot police for next weeks meetings as I'm sure tempers are going to flare!

[Fenwicksgirl]

Flaps 10, as usual for pprune, very innacurate post.
SIA asking crew for 2-3 days per month for a year, take it or leave it!!!
Why did you not ask the AOA to vote on voluntary LWOP, it is pretty much the same except this one is more formal, it is not a collective choice thats why. SLS is still volluntary that is why we dont vote on it!!! It would not matter if the AOA did not endorse it, it would still be offered and knowing the divisiveness of the pilot body i think most would have signed anyway! So all the AOA have done is make the best of a bad situation, thats all!!!
Death of AOA, what a load of BS, the information i have found on their forums has been far superior to the rubbish posted here!!!
Goathead, a shame that you dont value your membership more than that. I hope then that you will put your membership to rest before the public forums and more info is posted on the AOA site, you seem to know how to handle things much better, good luck with that!!!
Again, see this for what it is, the AOA are being tactical for the future of the AOA, there will be better battles to fight in the future when the company is much healthier!! Why fight now???

[Frogman1484]

Goathead , I bet you probably not even in the AOA, you are probably one of the guys that refused to join when you could not get RA55 increased at the cost of the majority of the pilot body.

Just remember that if it was not for the AOA, we would have had the Cos08 imposed on us in Aug 2007!!!

[Flap10]

Just remember that if it was not for the AOA, we would have had the Cos08 imposed on us in Aug 2007!!!

Maybe I got my facts wrong but it was the committee under the leadership of ST that were trying to sell us CoS08, in the end the membership had the sense to turn it down. You're giving to much credit to the AoA for that one! Furthermore, no CoS can be imposed on you unless the terms of the contract are an improvement to the old one.

SLS is still voluntary that is why we don't vote on it!!! It would not matter if the AOA did not endorse it, it would still be offered and knowing the divisiveness of the pilot body i think most would have signed anyway! So all the AOA have done is make the best of a bad situation, thats all!!!

Completely disagree! There are still many unanswered questions about the need for SLS, and especially the unfair terms of the SLS. The AoA should have taken a stronger position. There is still ten days left and they have already endorsed the scheme. Although it is an individual choice, you certainly would have had a larger number saying NO if the AoA had recommended its members to say NO to SLS. The masses that were teetering have a perfect excuse to accept SLS now with the attitude of, "oh well the AoA is endorsing it, so I better do it"!

FOCX is completely right with his first post! It's like that poodle that thinks it's a doberman and barks at you from a distance, but as soon as you approach it, it scurries back into hiding.

[chards]

Talk about bs, why do I keep reading that "most will take sls"? I haven't spoken to anyone of my rank that is even considering it.

[Darling]

Sorry Flap10

"Completely disagree! There are still many unanswered questions about the need for SLS, and especially the unfair terms of the SLS. The AoA should have taken a stronger position."

Irrelevant. Fact: The Company has linked SLS to COS.

Unfortunately the rest of the Cathay workforce is paying the price too. This is not about whether the Company is going through a cash crisis - it may be or it may not be. The point is that it is linked for industrial purposes. Justify it in those terms.

If we get some icing on the cake for the AOA to endorse it, great. If the icing on the cake is not good enough, don't endorse it.

Lets wait and see what they are actually endorsing.

"There is still ten days left and they have already endorsed the scheme."

I am hoping you are a member that hasn't read the update yet. The deadline has been extended to the 18 May. Its all within the AOA rules.

"Maybe I got my facts wrong but it was the committee under the leadership of ST that were trying to sell us CoS08, in the end the membership had the sense to turn it down."

That was then, this is now. Now is not the time to be asking for more money or reminiscing about the past. The AOA can move forward as a single group while recommending different selections for different groups. They will do this to reduce the total number of contracts and simplify the demographics. There will be a few fringe dwellers that we must accept. eg If I were a young A-Scaler I wouldn't be signing anything, or if I were and aged-challenged, junior FO, I would probably take COS08.

The AOA will say "this is an individual decision". Think about it. What your personal decision is, is probably the best decision for the AOA as a whole too.

Lets put age 65 to bed, while keeping bypass pay alive. Move forward together and "live to fight stronger", when we are more likely to win the PR war.

[Flap10]

Fact: The Company has linked SLS to COS.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!

SLS and CoS are two different votes! It's only for F/Os and S/Os (as the carrot dangles in front of them), should they accept CoS08, then SLS is waived! That is the only link. Should they not accept CoS08, they still have to vote for SLS, like we all do!

Move forward together and "live to fight stronger", when we are more likely to win the PR war.

I remember people saying that in 2001, we then had five years (2003-2008) of good times to put the heat on!.....well you know what happened, but you're right, lets not reminisce about the past, we certainly don't seem to learn from it.

I am with Air Profit on this one!

[Fenwicksgirl]

Flaps10 once again you are wrong and are missinforming others.
If you elect to do nothing you remain on your current CoS and do not have to participate in SLS, it is the default. So yes, only the company have put an apparent link with SLS and CoS, not the AOA!!
You have a go at the AOA for putting CoS08 to a vote back in 07, however, you now complain that the AOA is not allowing you to vote on SLS. Which one is it, you want to vote or you don't?????? Either way you just whinge!!!!!

[Darling]

Thanks Fenwicksgirl.

Only 2 posts, 3 now, and I give up on some of these people.

As I said before, there will be fringe dwellers.

[Flap10]

Fenwicksgirl,

Read my handle carefully, I am not FlapS10, I am Flap10, two different people! I have not complained that SLS is not being put to vote, nor did I say that it was the AoA that linked SlS and CoS08.

My objection is with the AoA not coming out and flatly turning down SLS with all of its flaws.

You can always tell committee members when they downplay the severity by saying irrelevant to really relevant issues.

Don't you worry little Darling, there is going to be a lot of people giving up on the AoA after this fiasco.

[iLuvPX]

Fenwicksgirl, another AOA loser trying to justify the little club's existence. They endorse this ridiculous SLS because they are either afraid of the management, or more aptly, are in bed with them.

You can always tell an AOA member on the flight deck. When asked if they want coffee or tea, they say "what does the company want?"

The AOA is just a knitting club for spineless company stooges, nothing more.

Give yourselves the only pay INCREASE available...stop paying AOA dues.

AOA NO WAY!!!

[yokebearer]

I think you guys are wrong. The AOA is doing what they can under the circumstances.
If we get the unification of freighters and pax out of this deal that alone will be significant for all junior officers. If it takes some unpaid leave to get it done then so be it.

The company had a clear goal here - Get all captains on COS 08 - then all court cases and retirement issues go away plus they get rid of A scale once and for all.

Their secondary goal was to sucker as many junior officers onto 08 as possible. They realize now that is prob not going to happen and therefore don't care anymore about the ongoing negotiations. The junior crew who stay on 99 will be dealt with later - trust me this is not the FINAL offer they claim it to be.

The AOA will be much needed by all who do not yet have a command to fight bypass pay court cases and keep the pressure up till we get something better than 08 in exchange for our bypass.

A lot of Captains may quit - since they have not much more to gain by being members - but all the FO's and SO's clearly understand the need to stand together with the AOA to negotiate future issues - of which there are many!

All of this has nothing to do with sls.

[flatlands744]

The AOA may not be ideal but is the best that we have in my view. This Co will always get what most of it wants in the end, but at least the AOA tries to make it a slightly better deal. Without the AOA there would be few court cases taking the Co to task and the management would just change COS etc as they feel like it. At times it feels like this is what happens anyway, but I for one appreciate the effort put in on our behalf to try and make the Co do the right thing.

If as predicted a lot of guys don't sign over there will be a lot of "fights" to be fought over the coming months and years.