Your Careers In The Balance
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ATY Aside from your less than cordial reply and sketchy facts of history, your posting misses my point - the airline business is in a race to the bottom.
The CAL pilots of the early '80's decided to withhold their services from Lorenzo, et al, because they thought that abrogation of their contract without due cause was worthy of a strike. They were very solid and sadly, soon out of work, and in many cases, out of work forever. It doesn't matter that they (or you) are 'right', it only matters that you win. History has not been kind to the pilots. I don't see how this fight will end up any other way but for management to win. As someone eloquently stated above, you have two choices; withhold your services and suffer the consequences or adjust to the new reality.
As for your comment about me being naïve, I would offer that as proof that you still do not grasp the nature of the beast. Every downward push to a competitor’s pilot contract absolutely affects yours. It doesn’t matter the cause, be it bankruptcy, economic scares, weak union, strong management, whatever. The result is the same to you – management can pay you less money and make you work harder for it.
The CAL pilots of the early '80's decided to withhold their services from Lorenzo, et al, because they thought that abrogation of their contract without due cause was worthy of a strike. They were very solid and sadly, soon out of work, and in many cases, out of work forever. It doesn't matter that they (or you) are 'right', it only matters that you win. History has not been kind to the pilots. I don't see how this fight will end up any other way but for management to win. As someone eloquently stated above, you have two choices; withhold your services and suffer the consequences or adjust to the new reality.
As for your comment about me being naïve, I would offer that as proof that you still do not grasp the nature of the beast. Every downward push to a competitor’s pilot contract absolutely affects yours. It doesn’t matter the cause, be it bankruptcy, economic scares, weak union, strong management, whatever. The result is the same to you – management can pay you less money and make you work harder for it.
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Obama57
You do realise that the DFO et al read this and then keep the rumors spinning on the defeatist attitude you put fourth. I do agree that some events in history have not been kind to our profession.
ATY has good points however, just think that a year ago CX and almost every company in the world were struggling to find crew. Why is CX still taking extendee’s past 55.
They have just held a conference in Dubai about the forecast shortage of pilots (and engineers and air traffic controllers) to try to find a solution to the problem. It’s said the next shortage will be much worse than the previous. Look at the aircraft orders.
Try to focus on the positive! Ignore the weekly updates and keep an eye on the market instead for a more accurate gauge on what’s happening.
You do realise that the DFO et al read this and then keep the rumors spinning on the defeatist attitude you put fourth. I do agree that some events in history have not been kind to our profession.
ATY has good points however, just think that a year ago CX and almost every company in the world were struggling to find crew. Why is CX still taking extendee’s past 55.
They have just held a conference in Dubai about the forecast shortage of pilots (and engineers and air traffic controllers) to try to find a solution to the problem. It’s said the next shortage will be much worse than the previous. Look at the aircraft orders.
Try to focus on the positive! Ignore the weekly updates and keep an eye on the market instead for a more accurate gauge on what’s happening.
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A recession is NOT the time to threaten CX management !
Reduced passengers/cargo mean CX would love to ground aircraft.
Even if every CX aircraft was parked there are plenty of airlines who would be happy to lease aircraft and crews to run our main routes.
Remember the C/As strike !?
Reduced passengers/cargo mean CX would love to ground aircraft.
Even if every CX aircraft was parked there are plenty of airlines who would be happy to lease aircraft and crews to run our main routes.
Remember the C/As strike !?
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Ah yes Apple Tree Yard,
a place full of twisted, gnarly, old tree's, oft producing the same bitter/sour fruits year after year and permanently rooted in the same place - i.e. unable to move from the same monotonous standpoint.
You are so right!
a place full of twisted, gnarly, old tree's, oft producing the same bitter/sour fruits year after year and permanently rooted in the same place - i.e. unable to move from the same monotonous standpoint.
You are so right!
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Wow zero content
N1: First off , thanks for joining in ! It is so nice to see that even when you have nothing to add to the discussion you still feel the need to insult someone......
ATY I am with you this time, we need to stay the course and not give up anything else. Then when the 6 billion consumers start consuming again, we can begin to use our larger representation to try to improve our collective lot rather than continue to accept reductions.
All you panic mongers out there, remember there are degrees to everything. Play the strong position in any negotiation regardless of your perception. There are many levels of pressure we can exact. We do not need to go screaming straight for the parked airplane.
We are smarter than we give ourselves credit for. Surely we can stand up to the bullying without any sacrificial lambs, without the panic ! I remember being at meetings where grown men in this co. were crying (yes real frekin tears) because they wanted to stop all action. It was the most unbelievable thing I have ever witnessed. That was without even considering parking airplanes, just being a little naughty !
Out in the real world you have to manouver yourself to gain the best business advantage. You have to be smarter and more innovative than your competition. You do not just sit back and try nothing because it may or may not get you in trouble.
Man up Bimbo (too funny) and Obama (your name sake is showing some why aren't you) we are not threatening when all we do is ask to be treated fairly as in BY OUR CONTRACT.
Peace out !
ATY I am with you this time, we need to stay the course and not give up anything else. Then when the 6 billion consumers start consuming again, we can begin to use our larger representation to try to improve our collective lot rather than continue to accept reductions.
All you panic mongers out there, remember there are degrees to everything. Play the strong position in any negotiation regardless of your perception. There are many levels of pressure we can exact. We do not need to go screaming straight for the parked airplane.
We are smarter than we give ourselves credit for. Surely we can stand up to the bullying without any sacrificial lambs, without the panic ! I remember being at meetings where grown men in this co. were crying (yes real frekin tears) because they wanted to stop all action. It was the most unbelievable thing I have ever witnessed. That was without even considering parking airplanes, just being a little naughty !
Out in the real world you have to manouver yourself to gain the best business advantage. You have to be smarter and more innovative than your competition. You do not just sit back and try nothing because it may or may not get you in trouble.
Man up Bimbo (too funny) and Obama (your name sake is showing some why aren't you) we are not threatening when all we do is ask to be treated fairly as in BY OUR CONTRACT.
Peace out !
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Bimbo
I think you need a Japanese dictionary....
Bimbo Himonashi means Poor no Thread(as in cotton or string).
I think you mean Bimbo Himanashi...Poor (people) have no time...
Either way ATY is correct.
I think you need a Japanese dictionary....
Bimbo Himonashi means Poor no Thread(as in cotton or string).
I think you mean Bimbo Himanashi...Poor (people) have no time...
Either way ATY is correct.
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CPA History
OCD
Oh how true and do your colleagues learn from history
I remember a Mr Eggington in the early 90's, chairing meetings about OBS (Companys version - Operation Better Shape ) which in reality meant Operation B'**** and get ready for more pineapples
The only group who had the balls to say enough is enough were the perfumed picket brigade who lined up outside Government House in the cold for days
Rodders lost the battle and it was only a matter of time before he left the Swire Group with his tail between his legs
This is what I remember about management, some of who would sell their mothers for sixpence
A body of men who bond together on every suitable occasion, to maintain by deceit and injustice, what they have obtained by the sacrifice of honour
They continue to destroy what was once the best airline in the world
I wish you and your fellow pilots all the best for the future
Italiancheeze
Oh how true and do your colleagues learn from history
I remember a Mr Eggington in the early 90's, chairing meetings about OBS (Companys version - Operation Better Shape ) which in reality meant Operation B'**** and get ready for more pineapples
The only group who had the balls to say enough is enough were the perfumed picket brigade who lined up outside Government House in the cold for days
Rodders lost the battle and it was only a matter of time before he left the Swire Group with his tail between his legs
This is what I remember about management, some of who would sell their mothers for sixpence
A body of men who bond together on every suitable occasion, to maintain by deceit and injustice, what they have obtained by the sacrifice of honour
They continue to destroy what was once the best airline in the world
I wish you and your fellow pilots all the best for the future
Italiancheeze
Last edited by italiancheeze; 19th Apr 2009 at 12:07.
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This is a rather interesting thread, specially, if one hopes to be part of the next intake at CX. From far away, the grass growing on your side seems so much greener...
However, I find it a bit sad, that grownup people - after all CX doesn't have to many kids piloting their aircraft - start insulting each other in the hope of driving home however weak a point. Hiding behind a username makes it possible. Unfortunately it makes this thread sound like the Maun thread in African Aviation, but there are kids flying.
It would be so refreshing, if you guys would use arguments rather than hidden or blatant insults, please.
However, I find it a bit sad, that grownup people - after all CX doesn't have to many kids piloting their aircraft - start insulting each other in the hope of driving home however weak a point. Hiding behind a username makes it possible. Unfortunately it makes this thread sound like the Maun thread in African Aviation, but there are kids flying.
It would be so refreshing, if you guys would use arguments rather than hidden or blatant insults, please.
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From Fridays business section of the Australian newspaper.
CHINA'S 4 trillion yuan ($808 billion) stimulus package is starting to produce results, with industrial output rising quickly, backing recent news of stronger retail sales.
Last month, China's industrial output growth jumped 8.3 per cent, up from the 3.8 per cent rise of the first two months, as domestic demand continued to improve, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said.
He described the figures as "better than expected", according to an interview published in the China Securities Journal.
But he warned that the international financial crisis "has not yet hit the bottom".
Financial analysts in China, however, are increasingly confident that the country's slowing economy has bottomed.
"We believe the trough of sequential growth is already behind us, and China is heading into the initial stage of a recovery in the first quarter of 2009," said Goldman Sachs Guo Hua analysts Helen Qiao and Yu Song. "In our view, China has already come out of the long winter featuring the sharpest and most severe growth slowdown in the past 30 years.
"Green shoots of strong domestic credit expansion, together with higher-than-expected fixed asset investment (FAI) growth are signalling the arrival of a spring season with rising upside risks to domestic demand growth."
But Mr Wen warned that the outlook for China's exports -- which together with flow-on effects account for about 30 per cent of its GDP -- was still uncertain with plummeting demand for its products from offshore showing few signs of reversing. This in turn is pushing up unemployment in China, which will have its own economic problems.
"It's hard to say that China alone has steered away from the crisis," Mr Wen said.
In November, China announced its unprecedented stimulus package, which it fast-tracked to counter the global financial crisis.
The country moved more swiftly and on a greater scale than any Western country.
But China's relatively strong economy is beginning to worry other nations, with South Korea voicing concerns yesterday about its neighbour's rising economic power and potential threat to take some of its export markets.
China's National Statistics Bureau is scheduled to release first-quarter data on the Chinese economy on Thursday.
"While the market will likely focus on the lower year-on-year growth readings in the upcoming first quarter of 2009 GDP and March growth data, we reiterate our view that the sequential acceleration in activity growth is more important," Ms Qiao and Ms Yi said. "The growth rebound in 1Q 2009 looks strong, especially compared to elsewhere in the world, but hurdles remain high for GDP growth to reach close to the Government's target of 8 per cent this year."
CHINA'S 4 trillion yuan ($808 billion) stimulus package is starting to produce results, with industrial output rising quickly, backing recent news of stronger retail sales.
Last month, China's industrial output growth jumped 8.3 per cent, up from the 3.8 per cent rise of the first two months, as domestic demand continued to improve, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said.
He described the figures as "better than expected", according to an interview published in the China Securities Journal.
But he warned that the international financial crisis "has not yet hit the bottom".
Financial analysts in China, however, are increasingly confident that the country's slowing economy has bottomed.
"We believe the trough of sequential growth is already behind us, and China is heading into the initial stage of a recovery in the first quarter of 2009," said Goldman Sachs Guo Hua analysts Helen Qiao and Yu Song. "In our view, China has already come out of the long winter featuring the sharpest and most severe growth slowdown in the past 30 years.
"Green shoots of strong domestic credit expansion, together with higher-than-expected fixed asset investment (FAI) growth are signalling the arrival of a spring season with rising upside risks to domestic demand growth."
But Mr Wen warned that the outlook for China's exports -- which together with flow-on effects account for about 30 per cent of its GDP -- was still uncertain with plummeting demand for its products from offshore showing few signs of reversing. This in turn is pushing up unemployment in China, which will have its own economic problems.
"It's hard to say that China alone has steered away from the crisis," Mr Wen said.
In November, China announced its unprecedented stimulus package, which it fast-tracked to counter the global financial crisis.
The country moved more swiftly and on a greater scale than any Western country.
But China's relatively strong economy is beginning to worry other nations, with South Korea voicing concerns yesterday about its neighbour's rising economic power and potential threat to take some of its export markets.
China's National Statistics Bureau is scheduled to release first-quarter data on the Chinese economy on Thursday.
"While the market will likely focus on the lower year-on-year growth readings in the upcoming first quarter of 2009 GDP and March growth data, we reiterate our view that the sequential acceleration in activity growth is more important," Ms Qiao and Ms Yi said. "The growth rebound in 1Q 2009 looks strong, especially compared to elsewhere in the world, but hurdles remain high for GDP growth to reach close to the Government's target of 8 per cent this year."
