Climb and Descent Procedures - Use of the "Fasten Seat Belt" Sign (Revised Procedure)
Wowpeter ..
Almost identical to Qantas procedures. They don't cycle the seat belt sign after take off (they just select it to AUTO), or again at 10000' on descent. Nor do they do a "30 min to landing" PA, but they do a "cabin crew prepare the cabin for landing PA" at 20000'.
Incidentally, cabin crew too are required to be seated anytime the seatbelt sign is on, and flight deck crew will strap in fully too. The flight deck crew make the PA (in 1 language ...
) stating the the seatbelt sign has been switched on etc etc ..
VS
Almost identical to Qantas procedures. They don't cycle the seat belt sign after take off (they just select it to AUTO), or again at 10000' on descent. Nor do they do a "30 min to landing" PA, but they do a "cabin crew prepare the cabin for landing PA" at 20000'.
Incidentally, cabin crew too are required to be seated anytime the seatbelt sign is on, and flight deck crew will strap in fully too. The flight deck crew make the PA (in 1 language ...
) stating the the seatbelt sign has been switched on etc etc ..VS
QF are anal to the extreme with their seat belt signs. The slightest bump and on it comes followed 2 seconds later by the CSM in a VERY stern voice "All Pax and Cabin crew MUST BE SEATED IMMEDIATLY"
On a 737-800 BNE to MEL flt the signs came on and off 5 times in 30 mins.
On one occasion they stayed on for 30 seconds ( I am not kidding, it really was only 30 seconds!! )
And they LOVE their speed brakes....................can't possibly be more than 2kts above the profile speed and out they come!!
Guranteed on every flight and not just in descent, one guy pulled them in cruise around FL390 in a 767 a few years back.
On a 737-800 BNE to MEL flt the signs came on and off 5 times in 30 mins.
On one occasion they stayed on for 30 seconds ( I am not kidding, it really was only 30 seconds!! )
And they LOVE their speed brakes....................can't possibly be more than 2kts above the profile speed and out they come!!
Guranteed on every flight and not just in descent, one guy pulled them in cruise around FL390 in a 767 a few years back.
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And they LOVE their speed brakes....................can't possibly be more than 2kts above the profile speed and out they come!!
It's just a cultural thing ACMS, usually the result of an FSO because a hostie at R5 broke a fingernail in turbulence ... you get the idea. The policy works well though ... most pax don't notice the inflight service being suspended 
I certainly wouldn't say QF use the speedbrake any more than CX. I can't speak for the 737, but the 767 has a nasty tendency to overspeed early in descent out of a jetstream. The most common solution was to start an early descent (at a lower RoD), but that was knocked on the head by the fuel nazis due to it using an extra spoonful of fuel.
The other fuel saving outcome is that descents are done at around 265kts (+/- 10kts) which usually requires speedbrake due to the lower drag.
I certainly wouldn't say QF use the speedbrake any more than CX. I can't speak for the 737, but the 767 has a nasty tendency to overspeed early in descent out of a jetstream. The most common solution was to start an early descent (at a lower RoD), but that was knocked on the head by the fuel nazis due to it using an extra spoonful of fuel.
The other fuel saving outcome is that descents are done at around 265kts (+/- 10kts) which usually requires speedbrake due to the lower drag.
true I don't know what the exact circumstances were on every flight.
BUT, I've travelled to Aus on QF 76's 74's and A330's for nearly 19 years now on average 4 times a year, so that's at least 70+ trips down the back of Skippy. ( not counting my Domestic sectors over 20 years in Oz, another 50+ ) My experience is on EVERY flight they use the brakes a LOT. Way more than we do in CX. Just my 2 cents worth over a long period.
BUT, I've travelled to Aus on QF 76's 74's and A330's for nearly 19 years now on average 4 times a year, so that's at least 70+ trips down the back of Skippy. ( not counting my Domestic sectors over 20 years in Oz, another 50+ ) My experience is on EVERY flight they use the brakes a LOT. Way more than we do in CX. Just my 2 cents worth over a long period.
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"My experience is on EVERY flight they use the brakes a LOT. Way more than we do in CX."
Maybe its because in QF they spend a lot of time flying around oz where rules and regs such as speed/alt constraints are actually expected to be met compared to simply driving around asia where you can get away with any old crap flying and no one gives a toss.
HKG, prime example.
Maybe its because in QF they spend a lot of time flying around oz where rules and regs such as speed/alt constraints are actually expected to be met compared to simply driving around asia where you can get away with any old crap flying and no one gives a toss.
HKG, prime example.
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I've also noticed the seatbelt warning signs have come up more frequently on CX flights.
You won't blame them if you knew about the stack of litigation against them awaiting processing by the courts, courtesy of those who don't buckle themselves properly when seated.
The crew is a different matter though ... they still have walk around the cabin, albeit minus the hot drinks.
You won't blame them if you knew about the stack of litigation against them awaiting processing by the courts, courtesy of those who don't buckle themselves properly when seated.
The crew is a different matter though ... they still have walk around the cabin, albeit minus the hot drinks.
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Not privy to what the new CX procedures are, I will say this: I reckon the Qantas seat-belt procedures are probably the best anywhere, so any alignment by CX towards QF's procs is a good thing. And don't worry, I am cynical about a lot of QF things, but not this one.
QF only turns the signs on when there is a risk to both passengers AND cabin-crew. If seat belt sign is on, EVERYONE sits and straps in. This foolishness I see around the world whereby the sign is on, pax are strapped yet c/c aren't must stop. I've paxed on CX numerous times (and EK, and other European carriers) and the sign has been on for 40, 50, 60 minutes plus, and nothing in the way of a ripple. Meanwhile c/c do a full service. The sign is being used as a crowd-control device. The message is confusing - pax end up not respecting the sign, c/c cannot be sure you're about to enter a bloody great CB. No wonder pax get up in the middle of a genuine turbulence/seat belt sign event to go to the dunny. And frankly if there is a turbulence risk to passengers, then cabin-crew are equally at risk and deserve the same protection (ie, stop what you are doing and strap in).
QF only turns the signs on when there is a risk to both passengers AND cabin-crew. If seat belt sign is on, EVERYONE sits and straps in. This foolishness I see around the world whereby the sign is on, pax are strapped yet c/c aren't must stop. I've paxed on CX numerous times (and EK, and other European carriers) and the sign has been on for 40, 50, 60 minutes plus, and nothing in the way of a ripple. Meanwhile c/c do a full service. The sign is being used as a crowd-control device. The message is confusing - pax end up not respecting the sign, c/c cannot be sure you're about to enter a bloody great CB. No wonder pax get up in the middle of a genuine turbulence/seat belt sign event to go to the dunny. And frankly if there is a turbulence risk to passengers, then cabin-crew are equally at risk and deserve the same protection (ie, stop what you are doing and strap in).
AnQrKa...............good on ya mate, anything more to add?
Would care to compare the movements per hour for SIN and or HKG to MEL or SYD? would you care to compare the delay rates caused by ATC to arrivals and departures between HKG and or SIN to SYD or MEL?
I think that if you did then HKG and SIN would compare very favourably with their Australian brothers.
Don't get me wrong, I think that both ASA and QF have world standard professionalism, it's just a few little things that get my attention regularly.
Would care to compare the movements per hour for SIN and or HKG to MEL or SYD? would you care to compare the delay rates caused by ATC to arrivals and departures between HKG and or SIN to SYD or MEL?
I think that if you did then HKG and SIN would compare very favourably with their Australian brothers.
Don't get me wrong, I think that both ASA and QF have world standard professionalism, it's just a few little things that get my attention regularly.
