Based Bypass Pay
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: far east
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Based Bypass Pay
Should based F/Os who decline to accept a command slot in HKG get bypass pay ? 
In fact should <any> F/O who declines a command slot get bypass pay ?
In fact should <any> F/O who declines a command slot get bypass pay ?
Nobody's forcing anyone but if you're offered a Command and refuse (ie because you want to stay on a base) you shouldn't expect (or get) bypass pay.
Neither should you unless you're the appropriate CAT to start a Command course.
Neither should you unless you're the appropriate CAT to start a Command course.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 'round here
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doesn't it get a little complicated with regards to where the base is, whether you can actually work there etc. Everyone is assuming a HKG base would always come up first.
With ASL and everything else any scraps we get of seniority working should be taken and this is one. If your command comes up and it isn't where you want to live then you should get bypass pay.
But we shouldn't ever get bypass pay. The AOA tells me there are freighter commands available for all (especially until recently on the classic) so if you want one, a freighter command makes the most financial sense. The 80K you lose in housing and benefits is easily covered by the 3 K a month yearly increase in pay especially when you go across as a pax command which would need to be on year 71 of the pax command pay scale.
With ASL and everything else any scraps we get of seniority working should be taken and this is one. If your command comes up and it isn't where you want to live then you should get bypass pay.
But we shouldn't ever get bypass pay. The AOA tells me there are freighter commands available for all (especially until recently on the classic) so if you want one, a freighter command makes the most financial sense. The 80K you lose in housing and benefits is easily covered by the 3 K a month yearly increase in pay especially when you go across as a pax command which would need to be on year 71 of the pax command pay scale.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jagman1,
take a quick look back at some of the people who've been cat B'd over the last 8 years. Quite clearly the vast majority of those decisions by the star chamber were purely political. Intimidation is the only word to describe it. So, in a small way, bypass pay provides some minor compensation to those victims.
Regarding the slightly more difficult question of pilots who've failed command course, and are awaiting re-assessment, some (but not all) have been subject to some strange egos in the C&T department. We all know that it's a big HILL to climb to achieve you 4BARS. (a couple of big hints in there!) Where do you propose that we draw the line?
take a quick look back at some of the people who've been cat B'd over the last 8 years. Quite clearly the vast majority of those decisions by the star chamber were purely political. Intimidation is the only word to describe it. So, in a small way, bypass pay provides some minor compensation to those victims.
Regarding the slightly more difficult question of pilots who've failed command course, and are awaiting re-assessment, some (but not all) have been subject to some strange egos in the C&T department. We all know that it's a big HILL to climb to achieve you 4BARS. (a couple of big hints in there!) Where do you propose that we draw the line?
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: At Home
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sisyphos,
I was not implying anyone should be 'forced' to upgrade.....far from it.....i was implying a situation such as guys that are Cat A and are now being held up due to the recent OASIS direct entry captains. I believe those guys that are having their classes delayed should get bypass pay. That is all.
I was not implying anyone should be 'forced' to upgrade.....far from it.....i was implying a situation such as guys that are Cat A and are now being held up due to the recent OASIS direct entry captains. I believe those guys that are having their classes delayed should get bypass pay. That is all.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: I go, therefore I am there!
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FOs who choose to delay their command to stay on the base SHOULD NOT receive bypass pay.
I am pretty sure that there are many among us who would have taken that option had they known BPP would be paid. For some it may be about the glory of the command, but for many it is just a pay check to pay for a lifestyle. Left or right seat is irrelevant.
By choice; right seat, less responsibility, preferred base, better life style, left seat pay. Who dreams this stuff up!
I am pretty sure that there are many among us who would have taken that option had they known BPP would be paid. For some it may be about the glory of the command, but for many it is just a pay check to pay for a lifestyle. Left or right seat is irrelevant.
By choice; right seat, less responsibility, preferred base, better life style, left seat pay. Who dreams this stuff up!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
arse,
I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't give a rats about 3 bars or 4 if I am on the same money. Most people would take the no responsibilty for same pay option I think.
Crazy, crazy situation at the moment.
I have no problem with blokes who have failed command attempt one getting bypass pay during their year of re-assesment. If it takes longer - well we can talk about that. BUT........getting BPP because you turned down HKG pax command to stay on your base!! WTF.
I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't give a rats about 3 bars or 4 if I am on the same money. Most people would take the no responsibilty for same pay option I think.
Crazy, crazy situation at the moment.
I have no problem with blokes who have failed command attempt one getting bypass pay during their year of re-assesment. If it takes longer - well we can talk about that. BUT........getting BPP because you turned down HKG pax command to stay on your base!! WTF.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Should based F/Os who decline to accept a command slot in HKG get bypass pay ? In fact should <any> F/O who declines a command slot get bypass pay"
Yes.... because that's what in the contract. If you want to negotiate a change...I'm sure Nick's door is always open to a change in the BPP clause.
As for Jagman1's suggestion....
"Neither should you unless you're the appropriate CAT to start a Command course"
Do be sure to mention that well thought out idea to the SO on your next sector
Yes.... because that's what in the contract. If you want to negotiate a change...I'm sure Nick's door is always open to a change in the BPP clause.
As for Jagman1's suggestion....
"Neither should you unless you're the appropriate CAT to start a Command course"
Do be sure to mention that well thought out idea to the SO on your next sector
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"FOs who choose to delay their command to stay on the base SHOULD NOT receive bypass pay." -arse
Arse, have you considered that these F/O's have been awarded a command slot on a base but have to wait to use their joker because of a type change? Then there are those that are bidding for but not receiving commands on a base, and those that have had the Oasis retreads jump in front of them for a freighter command. Given these senarios do you still feel they don't deserve bypass pay? Have they "refused" a command or are they simply unable to secure one.
Due to family and/or other reasons returning to Hong Kong indefinitely is simply not an option for many people.
Arse, have you considered that these F/O's have been awarded a command slot on a base but have to wait to use their joker because of a type change? Then there are those that are bidding for but not receiving commands on a base, and those that have had the Oasis retreads jump in front of them for a freighter command. Given these senarios do you still feel they don't deserve bypass pay? Have they "refused" a command or are they simply unable to secure one.
Due to family and/or other reasons returning to Hong Kong indefinitely is simply not an option for many people.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: far east
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If people choose to refuse a command (in seniority if you can call, what we have now, that 
) for whatever reason I believe they should not get BPP. Think about it, if there were no bases & a pilot's number came up but declined the course because his roster may not be as good (say for commuting) or some other reason should he get the money ? Surely the pilot must take responsibility for his own decision & circumstances. I was under the impression BPP was for those pilots who are disadvantaged by CX <not> themselves. Pls don't read this as not having sympathy for those pilots who may be in less than ideal circumstances but isn't this the life we choose, which airline to work for, which country to live in or who you marry ? You normally can't have it both ways but in this airline it appears you can
) for whatever reason I believe they should not get BPP. Think about it, if there were no bases & a pilot's number came up but declined the course because his roster may not be as good (say for commuting) or some other reason should he get the money ? Surely the pilot must take responsibility for his own decision & circumstances. I was under the impression BPP was for those pilots who are disadvantaged by CX <not> themselves. Pls don't read this as not having sympathy for those pilots who may be in less than ideal circumstances but isn't this the life we choose, which airline to work for, which country to live in or who you marry ? You normally can't have it both ways but in this airline it appears you can
Join Date: May 2008
Location: HK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What would happen if a Captain in HK bids for a slot on a base as an F/O because they want a base and they are not senior enough yet for the Command slots there?
Would they still receive BPP awaiting their Command on the base??
Sounds like a great option!
Would they still receive BPP awaiting their Command on the base??
Sounds like a great option!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What would happen if a Captain in HK bids for a slot on a base as an F/O because they want a base and they are not senior enough yet for the Command slots there?
Management was shocked (& appalled) to hear that CX Captains would wish to return to being an FO.
The answer was a flat NO.. sorry cannot. Once a CX Captain always a CX Captain.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think if someone is offered a command in their base area and refuse it they're no longer eligible for BPP. ie If a LAX based pilot is awarded a command in LAX and refuses it, he is no longer eligible for BPP.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Established.
Age: 53
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The answer was a flat NO.. sorry cannot. Once a CX Captain always a CX Captain.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not so. There was a recent case of exactly that. The Captain concerned was told he had to resign from CX and then rejoin as a DEFO on COS'99 on the base.
To clarify my post, I was referring too a simple case of downgrading from Captain to FO position keeping ones seniority, COS & entitlements exactly the same as currently on.
To this request the company will say NO.. cannot.