What is the AOA's role?
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Question for Numero Crunchero
Numero Crunchero on 10th October 07 you wrote:
"Two types of people are attracted to positions of influence....those wanting the kudos and those that are selfless and charitable. ST is one of the most honest, selfless people I have ever met. ND had a personal axe to grind, ST does not. I trust ST implicitly although I often disagree with him - but then thats democracy for you."
Out of interest, do you stand by those comments?
"Two types of people are attracted to positions of influence....those wanting the kudos and those that are selfless and charitable. ST is one of the most honest, selfless people I have ever met. ND had a personal axe to grind, ST does not. I trust ST implicitly although I often disagree with him - but then thats democracy for you."
Out of interest, do you stand by those comments?
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cluin44
I realize that you asked the question of NC, but, herewith, my two cents' worth:
To be selfless and charitable are prime requisites for leadership, but they are totally useless without competence, capability, initiative, insight, and backbone.
CW
To be selfless and charitable are prime requisites for leadership, but they are totally useless without competence, capability, initiative, insight, and backbone.
CW
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We have only one candidate for the Presidency? Can we know more about him please, cos I wanna know whether he'll take the lead, whether he'll take this bull by the horns, or whether he'll turn out with some balls.
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Remember, the AOA is only as effective as it's membership. If only 50% of the pilots belong, I'll let you guess as to how effective it will be.
My thoughts, no AOA would be even more effective and have a greater impact. CX would have to negotiate on an individual basis. That would lead to outright chaos.
Cheers
My thoughts, no AOA would be even more effective and have a greater impact. CX would have to negotiate on an individual basis. That would lead to outright chaos.
Cheers
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Time is running out...the AOA needs to be a strong voice pilots can trust or I know there will be an exodus of members this fall. If that happens, then they might as well disband.
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I agree with you Jack57, however, 'by the same token' surely you can see that the AOA has NOT done fair by those of us who remain members.
As I have said in a previous post, when we are asked to vote, and the majority says 'No', it means just that. In no other Union that I have belonged to (Transport Workers Union Aus., Teamsters, ALPA) have I ever been 'advised' to "think about it again, and have another revote". Come on now, fair is fair - this bullsh*t HAS TO STOP. What is the point of voting in the first place if the GC have already made up their minds then ?
One of the biggest mistakes we made was to give up our 5-4-3 rule. Truly a stupid move. I reckon hell will freeze over before we ever get that reinstated.
Aside from this, still, we need to unify our pilot group as a WHOLE. If we don't, all the negotiations with the Company under the direction of the GC amounts to 'Nunn and Buckleys'.
"Either you are with us, or you're against us" - This is reality for us as well. Either we start looking out for each other and unifying ourselves as one, or we are wasting our time.
Westcoastcapt has a point stating the AOA is as effective as its membership.
A few months ago, I posted a reply referring to jumpseats and how I would give the jumpseat to a non AOA member, and copped flak from ACMS. As I said to ACMS and everyone else, we are all entitled to our beliefs, that's what democracy is about.
Unless we unify our Pilot group as a whole, we will not see our Contract improve, but erode. In the end, we only shall have ourselves to blame NOT the AOA.
Time to grab a coffee, a deck chair and wait for the terse replies.....
As I have said in a previous post, when we are asked to vote, and the majority says 'No', it means just that. In no other Union that I have belonged to (Transport Workers Union Aus., Teamsters, ALPA) have I ever been 'advised' to "think about it again, and have another revote". Come on now, fair is fair - this bullsh*t HAS TO STOP. What is the point of voting in the first place if the GC have already made up their minds then ?
One of the biggest mistakes we made was to give up our 5-4-3 rule. Truly a stupid move. I reckon hell will freeze over before we ever get that reinstated.
Aside from this, still, we need to unify our pilot group as a WHOLE. If we don't, all the negotiations with the Company under the direction of the GC amounts to 'Nunn and Buckleys'.
"Either you are with us, or you're against us" - This is reality for us as well. Either we start looking out for each other and unifying ourselves as one, or we are wasting our time.
Westcoastcapt has a point stating the AOA is as effective as its membership.
A few months ago, I posted a reply referring to jumpseats and how I would give the jumpseat to a non AOA member, and copped flak from ACMS. As I said to ACMS and everyone else, we are all entitled to our beliefs, that's what democracy is about.
Unless we unify our Pilot group as a whole, we will not see our Contract improve, but erode. In the end, we only shall have ourselves to blame NOT the AOA.
Time to grab a coffee, a deck chair and wait for the terse replies.....
Last edited by Hellenic aviator; 28th May 2008 at 02:41.
A few months ago, I posted a reply referring to jumpseats and how I would give the jumpseat to a non AOA member, and copped flak from ACMS. As I said to ACMS and everyone else, we are all entitled to our beliefs, that's what democracy is about.
I honestly don't recall, I must have sent you some flak about something or other, but what?
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Time is running out...the AOA needs to be a strong voice pilots can trust or I know there will be an exodus of members this fall. If that happens, then they might as well disband.
Thread Starter
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A vs B - again!
It is very easy to categorise people based on one fact - such as wearing long sleeves or joining before 1st April 93. But, as is often the case, making that assumption will make an @ss out of you - and 'umption';-)
Last year the GC had to vote on whether or not to present the company's best offer to the membership. There were 16 GC members, 8 of whom were A scale and 7 of those were based. The GC voted 11-5 NOT to recommend the deal to the membership. So based on self interest there should have been at least 8 of us to vote in a deal that clearly only benefited A scale based Captains!
I don't know all the GC nominees but the ones I do know are too honourable to ever put personal gain ahead of the general membership interest!
Last year the GC had to vote on whether or not to present the company's best offer to the membership. There were 16 GC members, 8 of whom were A scale and 7 of those were based. The GC voted 11-5 NOT to recommend the deal to the membership. So based on self interest there should have been at least 8 of us to vote in a deal that clearly only benefited A scale based Captains!
I don't know all the GC nominees but the ones I do know are too honourable to ever put personal gain ahead of the general membership interest!
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The AOA has no role and no credibility. sad, because they...are us!
We must disband this poor excuse of an association and just create havoc with the company. Give them what they have been trying to accomplish...the destruction of the AOA but at the same time let them live with the chaos of dealing with 2800+ pilots directly.
We must disband this poor excuse of an association and just create havoc with the company. Give them what they have been trying to accomplish...the destruction of the AOA but at the same time let them live with the chaos of dealing with 2800+ pilots directly.