Retirement at 55, 65, 75....
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too strongly agree that bypass pay must be paid in the event of RA65, BUT we have to remember that it only gets paid to those assessed as suitable. There are rumors that S/Os assessments are being delayed til near the actual upgrade, so what prevents the company from doing the same with command bypass pay? We deserve bypass pay since it's in our contract, but we also need to address the issue of the assessment.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread should be mandatory reading, for every new student at the local "Aviation College."
So they have a chance to....get out, before it is to late.
I wonder if other, so called professionals, have forums like this?
Anonymity and the Internet have really hurt us, I doubt anyone would talk like this, face to face.
So they have a chance to....get out, before it is to late.
I wonder if other, so called professionals, have forums like this?
Anonymity and the Internet have really hurt us, I doubt anyone would talk like this, face to face.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
basings
sooooo.... you feel that 20 years seniority has no value when applying for a base? and that employing all new defo's directly onto a base in no way inconveniences our current f/o's in hkg who would like to be in YVR or SYD?
grow a head!
basings vacancies should ALL be seniority derived NOT save cx a buck driven.
And when you middle-of-the-road crew grow up just a little more you'll see there will be NO MORE bases at all for you.
Just as you slag off senior guys for wanting to go home after 20 years choking on smog in HKG ...so too will you be unable to due to direct entry hires today.
After 2008 there will be no more base transfers....unless you take a massive pay cut.
grow a head!
basings vacancies should ALL be seniority derived NOT save cx a buck driven.
And when you middle-of-the-road crew grow up just a little more you'll see there will be NO MORE bases at all for you.
Just as you slag off senior guys for wanting to go home after 20 years choking on smog in HKG ...so too will you be unable to due to direct entry hires today.
After 2008 there will be no more base transfers....unless you take a massive pay cut.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
question
Just how is getting rid of A scales going to improve the lot of B scalers?
You honestly think that the money cx saves from that exercise will be disbursed amoungst the remaining crew?
bwahahahahahahahahahhahahah.......
You honestly think that the money cx saves from that exercise will be disbursed amoungst the remaining crew?
bwahahahahahahahahahhahahah.......
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: in time anda space
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
School yard bully
I can understand A scalers being afraid of the big CX schoolyard bully. But for those of you with kids old enough, what advice do you give them? Kowtow as much as possible, run, hide? Or do you tell them to stand up to the bully -sensibly and possibly with help!?
WHen is enough, enough? I was quite surprised with their actions in 2001 in firing 49 people. Went to show that this 21st century airline is being run by 19th century coal mine managers. The cowardly Star chamber is another symptom of a gutless unaccountable bully syndrome - people with real character would identify themselves to candidates that have upgrades denied and would state why - real men! The incestuous self congratulating crowd of Arkansas idiots we have upstairs are busy congratulating themselves on how they got the manning just right -almost nooooo overtime!
So boys and girls, what do we do? Stand up to the bully and see if times have changed? Kow tow and accept whatever happens, like back door DECs, reduced BPP?
If my child couldn't succeed with the bully I would move him/her to a new school - same goes here. CX might still be better than most airlines but I will not remain at an airline where I have to roll over and expose my belly like some submissive dog!
WHen is enough, enough? I was quite surprised with their actions in 2001 in firing 49 people. Went to show that this 21st century airline is being run by 19th century coal mine managers. The cowardly Star chamber is another symptom of a gutless unaccountable bully syndrome - people with real character would identify themselves to candidates that have upgrades denied and would state why - real men! The incestuous self congratulating crowd of Arkansas idiots we have upstairs are busy congratulating themselves on how they got the manning just right -almost nooooo overtime!
So boys and girls, what do we do? Stand up to the bully and see if times have changed? Kow tow and accept whatever happens, like back door DECs, reduced BPP?
If my child couldn't succeed with the bully I would move him/her to a new school - same goes here. CX might still be better than most airlines but I will not remain at an airline where I have to roll over and expose my belly like some submissive dog!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: hong kong
Age: 61
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who are we fighting?
After reading some of the replies both from A scale captains and others, I am both embarrassed and ashamed to think they are the colleagues I fly with every day.
In my former life as a Captain in the RAAF it was expected you would show leadership in the way you fly, foster the development of your cockpit colleagues, and the way you conduct yourself generally. Yet I see very little of these traits generally in CPA.
To those former A scalers still bemoaning their loss of a golden deal and counting the "apparent" cost to them, get over it, you had the chance to vote with your feet when it was implemented. That you didn't indicates you accept it still represents a good deal and probably better than you could get elsewhere. Remember you are still being paid more to do the same job than a B scaler. And be honest, you would have still joined if you had initially been offered B scale rates.
As for my fellow B scalers why bemoan someone else getting a reasonable deal? I don't, as long as it isn't at the direct cost of other pilots including me. If I already had airline command time then I could vote with my feet, however being a "mature joiner" if I want to see command before 55 then I have to stay with this outfit.
I don't know how anyone can fault the logic of NC in the age 65 issue. One pilot body, one pay scale, one set of COS!! Stop the infighting and focus our energies at improving everyones lot. Accept that new-joiners will accept a lower package as a foot in the door, but established pilots accepting a lower package post-55 (housing and pay), or freighter command are reducing the bargaining power of EVERYONE.
In my former life as a Captain in the RAAF it was expected you would show leadership in the way you fly, foster the development of your cockpit colleagues, and the way you conduct yourself generally. Yet I see very little of these traits generally in CPA.
To those former A scalers still bemoaning their loss of a golden deal and counting the "apparent" cost to them, get over it, you had the chance to vote with your feet when it was implemented. That you didn't indicates you accept it still represents a good deal and probably better than you could get elsewhere. Remember you are still being paid more to do the same job than a B scaler. And be honest, you would have still joined if you had initially been offered B scale rates.
As for my fellow B scalers why bemoan someone else getting a reasonable deal? I don't, as long as it isn't at the direct cost of other pilots including me. If I already had airline command time then I could vote with my feet, however being a "mature joiner" if I want to see command before 55 then I have to stay with this outfit.
I don't know how anyone can fault the logic of NC in the age 65 issue. One pilot body, one pay scale, one set of COS!! Stop the infighting and focus our energies at improving everyones lot. Accept that new-joiners will accept a lower package as a foot in the door, but established pilots accepting a lower package post-55 (housing and pay), or freighter command are reducing the bargaining power of EVERYONE.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hotel
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
worm says -
Some Greek said - " Bad company corrupts good character!"
In my former life as a Captain in the RAAF it was expected you would show leadership in the way you fly, foster the development of your cockpit colleagues, and the way you conduct yourself generally. Yet I see very little of these traits generally in CPA
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Worm. Is your post a wind-up???
You can't be serious? So you were a Captain in the RAAF? Did you mention that during your interview with CX? I'm sure it would have impressed them.
You may not have noticed, but at least half of the senior pilots you bemoan are accomplished ex-military pilots (heck, some have even shot down enemy fighters..and one Herc!). I can only guess that you didn't notice because we don't use it as an introduction!
But the fact you think it gives you license to preach that A Scalers are greedy and should "get over things" is a bit rich! Especially as you go on to say that we should all stick together. A tiny bit of a contradiction...don't you think?
Quite frankly, although we may not have flown together, I think my colleagues and I "conduct" ourselves quite professionally..thank you very much! Upgrades are not just given away here?
Most people would say they are proud to have "earned" their stripes, and are maybe just a tiny bit resentful about being judged by junior pilots (ex-military or not) that are still in need of...what were your words, "fostering and developing".
BTW, and quite "honestly", I would not have joined on B scale. So you get over that!
As we said when I was in the Air Force, get some "time-in" before you make judgments or comment.
You can't be serious? So you were a Captain in the RAAF? Did you mention that during your interview with CX? I'm sure it would have impressed them.
You may not have noticed, but at least half of the senior pilots you bemoan are accomplished ex-military pilots (heck, some have even shot down enemy fighters..and one Herc!). I can only guess that you didn't notice because we don't use it as an introduction!
But the fact you think it gives you license to preach that A Scalers are greedy and should "get over things" is a bit rich! Especially as you go on to say that we should all stick together. A tiny bit of a contradiction...don't you think?
Quite frankly, although we may not have flown together, I think my colleagues and I "conduct" ourselves quite professionally..thank you very much! Upgrades are not just given away here?
Most people would say they are proud to have "earned" their stripes, and are maybe just a tiny bit resentful about being judged by junior pilots (ex-military or not) that are still in need of...what were your words, "fostering and developing".
BTW, and quite "honestly", I would not have joined on B scale. So you get over that!
As we said when I was in the Air Force, get some "time-in" before you make judgments or comment.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Raven 11, well done mate, the only error you are doing is in assuming that you are being criticized by junior crew only...no mate there are a lot of B scale captains that are equally put off by this whole debacle.
The fact that you say that you would not have joined on B scales is probably correct, but the fact of the matter is that quite a few guys are more than happy to extend on B scales. They have even chosen to train within 2 weeks of retirement,after being a line pilot for 20 years and telling us all on how he cannot wait to leave this Sh1t company and on how he is counting rosters.
I'm sorry mate but a lot of "Senior Pilots" are making your argument loose impact
The fact that you say that you would not have joined on B scales is probably correct, but the fact of the matter is that quite a few guys are more than happy to extend on B scales. They have even chosen to train within 2 weeks of retirement,after being a line pilot for 20 years and telling us all on how he cannot wait to leave this Sh1t company and on how he is counting rosters.
I'm sorry mate but a lot of "Senior Pilots" are making your argument loose impact
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frogman.
Valid point taken.
I guess we all want ( and deserve) to be respected by our colleagues.
What gets up my nose is someone insulting individuals on A scale, or Cathay's flight operations, as "worm" does in his post.
Full disclosure, I'm an A scale pilot, and a product of the Cathay system. I've flown both military and civil aviation prior to Cathay, and I can honestly say that Cathay flightcrew and flight operations are second to none! When someone gets his stripes at Cathay (two, three, or four bars) he deserves to be congratulated, not angrily diminished, as you so frequently see here.
Is that too much to ask?
Yes there are pay and contract issues that need to be resolved. Let's hope the AOA is up to the task of ensuring that we are "all" looked after fairly.
Valid point taken.
I guess we all want ( and deserve) to be respected by our colleagues.
What gets up my nose is someone insulting individuals on A scale, or Cathay's flight operations, as "worm" does in his post.
Full disclosure, I'm an A scale pilot, and a product of the Cathay system. I've flown both military and civil aviation prior to Cathay, and I can honestly say that Cathay flightcrew and flight operations are second to none! When someone gets his stripes at Cathay (two, three, or four bars) he deserves to be congratulated, not angrily diminished, as you so frequently see here.
Is that too much to ask?
Yes there are pay and contract issues that need to be resolved. Let's hope the AOA is up to the task of ensuring that we are "all" looked after fairly.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just remember that "Respect" can only be earned not demanded. There are a lot of guys out there that say one thing and then do another.
There are those that on one hand expect the AOA to sort out all of their issues while they go and join the training camp and most probably they are not even part of the AOA, because it costs too much!. How many Ascalers are actually in the AOA?
How about the A scaler that is pi..ed off that the AOA has blocked RA65 but he is more than happy to extend on Bscales with limited housing and no schooling...talk about the cart being pulled in both directions. The more guys that extend on these terms the less chance the rest of you have of ever going to 65 on Ascales!!!
Finally you also have the guys that are pissed off about the deal but are working on G days helping the company out at the expense of the rest of the pilot body.
I'm sorry to say but the GREED of hand full of senior pilots is going to bring the whole deal down to Bscales
There are those that on one hand expect the AOA to sort out all of their issues while they go and join the training camp and most probably they are not even part of the AOA, because it costs too much!. How many Ascalers are actually in the AOA?
How about the A scaler that is pi..ed off that the AOA has blocked RA65 but he is more than happy to extend on Bscales with limited housing and no schooling...talk about the cart being pulled in both directions. The more guys that extend on these terms the less chance the rest of you have of ever going to 65 on Ascales!!!
Finally you also have the guys that are pissed off about the deal but are working on G days helping the company out at the expense of the rest of the pilot body.
I'm sorry to say but the GREED of hand full of senior pilots is going to bring the whole deal down to Bscales