Retirement at 55, 65, 75....
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Capt Underpants, you have been with CX from the early 90's and still haven't achieved (financially..)what you were hoping for. This is over a time span of almost 20 years, now I have to ask you a question, do you think by staying beyond 55 (maybe till 60 or even 65 if your body can take it) you will achieve what you are hoping for...........?
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IT IS SIMPLE.
Age 65 is fine as long as I get my BYPASS PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So all of you stop bickering about details an unite to make sure the above happens.
Age 65 is fine as long as I get my BYPASS PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So all of you stop bickering about details an unite to make sure the above happens.
Last edited by missingblade; 23rd Apr 2008 at 06:35. Reason: spelling
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Retirement age
Unless things have changed dramatically, everyone joining CX knows that normal retirement age is 55. Obviously, when the company requires it, extensions are offered. Given that most will have a considerable time to plan for their retirement, to then expect to extend is likely driven by poor financial planning or sheer greed.
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I'd be happy with RA65, so long as the provisions for bypass pay are clarified and improved. We are all in agreement that time to upgrade will be extended, so therefore our career earnings will be reduced the longer we are delayed - even if in receipt of the COS99 bypass pay. I support Numero's incremental bypass pay proposal:
I'm a bit perplexed that there hasn't been any proactive polling of the AOA membership on what we think is an acceptable amendment(s) to "our" contracts. ? In the absence of AOA seeking information, I'd suggest we get off our collective backsides and ensure the GC knows what we want.
Bypass pay to equivalent delayed rank and promotion to bypassed rank. That means that your second year of command bypass should be to CN2, third year to SCN1 etc and then your eventual promotion should be to appropriate rank eg SCN2. Only in this way will there be no financial penalty to CoS99 employees for CX wanting to increase RA.
Join Date: May 2006
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Our AOA is going to be renegotiating our bypass wtih CX, but CX want a reduction of the current terms, unfortunately not an improvement. So I would suggest the same as Ex Douglas Driver, write and make sure you let the AOA know exactly what you want in regards to you bypass or whatever. Otherwise you may be looking at a reduction in your terms.
retread: coudn't have said it better myself, well said that Man.
If your 55, A scale and cannot retire then holy smoke what have you done??
Also remember these same heroes volunteered to work past 55 for absolute crap pay with NO benefits, now that want it ALL and want it NOW....
No payrise since '94 Newsflash: you don't need one.
mmmmmmm
If your 55, A scale and cannot retire then holy smoke what have you done??
Also remember these same heroes volunteered to work past 55 for absolute crap pay with NO benefits, now that want it ALL and want it NOW....
No payrise since '94 Newsflash: you don't need one.
mmmmmmm
Join Date: May 2006
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some food for thought, or cake...
as a new joiner on cos08, i probably stand to earn the least compaired to all the whiners (for lack of a better word) on this thread.
yet, i can't seem to wipe the ear-to-ear smile from my face after finally getting the job i have worked towards for the last 4 years
. if you tried hard enough, i'm sure some of you might remember it...
in other industries, salaries are confidential - you have no idea what the person next to you is earning, nor have you any right to know. you are there to do a job, and paid accordingly.
yet we as pilots think we have a right to moan about how much a person with year's more seniority is earning...
when a-scale was dropped, i still had to stand on my toes to reach the urinal. it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. as for cos99 or -07 or whatever it is; again, it was not offered to me. i am quite happy to accept cos08, and i'm sure you all were to sign the various offers made to you.
as for the wait: so you get bypassed for a few months/years due to ra-65. yet you now have a career that can last 10 years longer! more than enough time to recoup any losses. surely you can't expect to given full bypass pay AND stay till 65? yet that might still happen. mmm! that cake tastes great!
company expansion (almost 10% growth per year!) should also offest the upgrade delay caused by the new retirement age.
but we will all fight for a raise in our individual capacity? b-scale wants a pay-rise, but would begrudge a-scale the same? no logic there. surely an increase accross the board will benefit everyone, be it a-scale, b-scale, or cleaning lady??
ow! my head hurts.
patches
yet, i can't seem to wipe the ear-to-ear smile from my face after finally getting the job i have worked towards for the last 4 years
. if you tried hard enough, i'm sure some of you might remember it...in other industries, salaries are confidential - you have no idea what the person next to you is earning, nor have you any right to know. you are there to do a job, and paid accordingly.
yet we as pilots think we have a right to moan about how much a person with year's more seniority is earning...
when a-scale was dropped, i still had to stand on my toes to reach the urinal. it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. as for cos99 or -07 or whatever it is; again, it was not offered to me. i am quite happy to accept cos08, and i'm sure you all were to sign the various offers made to you.
as for the wait: so you get bypassed for a few months/years due to ra-65. yet you now have a career that can last 10 years longer! more than enough time to recoup any losses. surely you can't expect to given full bypass pay AND stay till 65? yet that might still happen. mmm! that cake tastes great!
company expansion (almost 10% growth per year!) should also offest the upgrade delay caused by the new retirement age.
but we will all fight for a raise in our individual capacity? b-scale wants a pay-rise, but would begrudge a-scale the same? no logic there. surely an increase accross the board will benefit everyone, be it a-scale, b-scale, or cleaning lady??
ow! my head hurts.
patches
Join Date: May 2002
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...and NR slowly leans back and smiles cynically as he reads the latest thread on PPRuNe
I can't believe that I share the sky with some of you halfwits.
I can't believe that I share the sky with some of you halfwits.
Really Capt Undies..........get a life outside your undies will ya.
Share a sky with you halfwits............
Is that the best you can do with all the money NR paid you?
Go join Southwest and learn how to GET ALONG.
You're the dope that said "f you lot, I'm A scale, and proud of it and I'm staying after 55, so there"
What do you expect us all to say???
I have a lot of A scale friends and you just take the cake, my North American friend. Atleast they don't RUB IT IN OUR NOSES like you.
Share a sky with you halfwits............
Is that the best you can do with all the money NR paid you?
Go join Southwest and learn how to GET ALONG.
You're the dope that said "f you lot, I'm A scale, and proud of it and I'm staying after 55, so there"
What do you expect us all to say???
I have a lot of A scale friends and you just take the cake, my North American friend. Atleast they don't RUB IT IN OUR NOSES like you.
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What a sad state of affairs this thread has become. The fact of the matter is that once we get RA65 we should all be on A scales, but will most probable all be on B scales.
We all knew what contract we were getting when we joined, the B scaleres knew that we were going to get paid less than A scalers which is something lots of A scale guys keep on reminding us.
Then again all of the A scalers knew that you had a better Pfund, Pay , and a travel fund to compensate you for a shorter career (most Ascale guys joined in their mid to late 30's). All of this was given knowingly that your career was going to stop at 55...you knew what you were signing for right!
The one thing that really makes me want to throw up is when I hear on how the Ascale salary has not been adjusted since 1994, but currently is still 20-25 % more than a Bscale Captain.
You then hear on how some guys are upset about having to pay tax on their travel allowance when most of the Bscalers do not even get one! Lets throw in that the fact that the currency protection on the Ascale Pfund is now at 10-15 or20% when the Bscalers have 0%, or when a Ascale captain tells his crew that he is going to extend because he does not think that his Aud 3.5mil pfund is not going to be enough....uhgh!!!
Come on guys , please do not try to play the I'm so hard done by card, because you have had a very good run so far...and yes we will all be going to 65 so be humble about it.
We all knew what contract we were getting when we joined, the B scaleres knew that we were going to get paid less than A scalers which is something lots of A scale guys keep on reminding us.
Then again all of the A scalers knew that you had a better Pfund, Pay , and a travel fund to compensate you for a shorter career (most Ascale guys joined in their mid to late 30's). All of this was given knowingly that your career was going to stop at 55...you knew what you were signing for right!
The one thing that really makes me want to throw up is when I hear on how the Ascale salary has not been adjusted since 1994, but currently is still 20-25 % more than a Bscale Captain.
You then hear on how some guys are upset about having to pay tax on their travel allowance when most of the Bscalers do not even get one! Lets throw in that the fact that the currency protection on the Ascale Pfund is now at 10-15 or20% when the Bscalers have 0%, or when a Ascale captain tells his crew that he is going to extend because he does not think that his Aud 3.5mil pfund is not going to be enough....uhgh!!!
Come on guys , please do not try to play the I'm so hard done by card, because you have had a very good run so far...and yes we will all be going to 65 so be humble about it.
yeas Frogman that's what RUBS ME THE WRONG WAY TOO.
1...2...3... lets all spend 1 min of silence for those POOR A Scalers that cannot afford to retire without taking just a pinch more.
or to quote the Classic DCP: "put something back into Aviation" funny stuff
good on ya mateeeeeeeeeeeeeee
1...2...3... lets all spend 1 min of silence for those POOR A Scalers that cannot afford to retire without taking just a pinch more.
or to quote the Classic DCP: "put something back into Aviation" funny stuff
good on ya mateeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Now people listen closely:
Like I said back a few posts ago: lets not continue with this A scale B scale B.S. Lets all work TOGETHER for a better future after 55 for ALL.
(or something along those lines)
All for one and one for ALL
So the in-fighting STOPS right here and right NOW.
UNITED front
Like I said back a few posts ago: lets not continue with this A scale B scale B.S. Lets all work TOGETHER for a better future after 55 for ALL.
(or something along those lines)
All for one and one for ALL
So the in-fighting STOPS right here and right NOW.
UNITED front
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ACMS,
Yeah, you said that a few lines ago, then proceeded to slag and fire away!!
Man o man....don't you get tired? How many kicks at the can does it take for you to try and make your point? Do you think shouting louder and more often helps? My gosh, you've made 678 posts (I think 78 on this one alone).
BTW, don't cry for me or my mates, bud...we're marketable.
You and your girlfriends remind me of someone happy to buy a house next to an airport, then whine about the noise depressing the property value.
It's beginning to depress me to think that maybe I'd rather not fly with some of the immature posters on this thread.
Yeah, you said that a few lines ago, then proceeded to slag and fire away!!
Man o man....don't you get tired? How many kicks at the can does it take for you to try and make your point? Do you think shouting louder and more often helps? My gosh, you've made 678 posts (I think 78 on this one alone).
BTW, don't cry for me or my mates, bud...we're marketable.
You and your girlfriends remind me of someone happy to buy a house next to an airport, then whine about the noise depressing the property value.
It's beginning to depress me to think that maybe I'd rather not fly with some of the immature posters on this thread.
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so you get bypassed for a few months/years due to ra-65.
As it stands now, a new joiner in December 07 could reasonable expect to be on command bypass pay for about 6-7 years. Should there be a recession in the airline industry sometime over the next 17 years then that time could easily be extended to let's say 10 years. The simple maths exercise goes like this and I'm using Pounds Sterling with all sums being rounded to the closest big number:
Difference between SFO yr 6 and Capt yr 1 = £20,000
6 years bypass pay 20,000 x 6 = £120,000
10 years bypass pay 20,000 x 10 = £200,000
Obviously these figures are approximate and you also have to bear in mind that bypass pay doesn't even come close to ameliorating the true lifetime earnings reduction that a delayed command results in (see separate post by NC).
This is just the basic pay element but when you introduce the availability of bases into the mix then the effects of the extensions are even more severe. Now......do you see why people are concerned?