Attention DPA
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Attention DPA
This post is directly to the DPA committee.
It is high time the DPA addressed the ongoing evil that is the KA training department.
Two more guys just got chopped at the end of their command courses by two clowns with a history of doing stupid, unrealistic checks while being prize screw ups themselves.
It is time the DPA stepped up and became responsible for the welfare of their members and got involved whenever anyone gets chopped on a command, bombs PCE or loses their tick.
This training department has destroyed marriages, careers and the reputations of too many fine men to remain stagnant with the training department any longer.
How can members be chopped so late in their command courses?
Either way the company, the training department and management have seriously screwed these pilots and their families.
When a pilot fails his command he is called in to a meeting with a manager and most amazingly no one else who was in the sim.
Some poor guys have had to suffer the indignity of having their meeting with the same person who chopped them!!!!!
The DPA should be on the phone to anyone who fails immediately and attend the meeting with the member and have the "TIRE" attend for once so he can explain himself.
How can a "TIRE" destroy someone's career and not be made to explain himself?
One poor guy actually completed all his sim drills to the required standard only to be told afterwards that he was too Boeing and hadn't passed. From a "TIRE" with no formal training or checking credentials and an ego that has it's own post code! (Amazing but true!)
Come on DPA committee it's time to get involved in this and stop the training department from willfully destroying one more persons life, marriage and career.
Finally when the new GMO tells the comitte that he is going to sack some pilots as he did recently at a DPA meeting then all flying should automaticaly and immediately be suspended for safety reasons.
We can't have pilots flying jets around wondering if the GMO is going to sack them. This is a genuine breach of safety and can have dire effect on a pilot who thinks he may be about to get sacked. I say no more on this subject as it is too horrible to contemplate
KA is under manned, overworked with moral at rock bottom, sick leave out of control and a lot of the best pilots leaving or waiting to leave in the near future.
That a GMO would even say this and want it passed on to the pilot group is cause for extreme alarm as far as safety is concerned.
Clearly he is not a fit or proper person to be in that position and the DPA should say so.
It is high time the DPA addressed the ongoing evil that is the KA training department.
Two more guys just got chopped at the end of their command courses by two clowns with a history of doing stupid, unrealistic checks while being prize screw ups themselves.
It is time the DPA stepped up and became responsible for the welfare of their members and got involved whenever anyone gets chopped on a command, bombs PCE or loses their tick.
This training department has destroyed marriages, careers and the reputations of too many fine men to remain stagnant with the training department any longer.
How can members be chopped so late in their command courses?
Either way the company, the training department and management have seriously screwed these pilots and their families.
When a pilot fails his command he is called in to a meeting with a manager and most amazingly no one else who was in the sim.
Some poor guys have had to suffer the indignity of having their meeting with the same person who chopped them!!!!!
The DPA should be on the phone to anyone who fails immediately and attend the meeting with the member and have the "TIRE" attend for once so he can explain himself.
How can a "TIRE" destroy someone's career and not be made to explain himself?
One poor guy actually completed all his sim drills to the required standard only to be told afterwards that he was too Boeing and hadn't passed. From a "TIRE" with no formal training or checking credentials and an ego that has it's own post code! (Amazing but true!)
Come on DPA committee it's time to get involved in this and stop the training department from willfully destroying one more persons life, marriage and career.
Finally when the new GMO tells the comitte that he is going to sack some pilots as he did recently at a DPA meeting then all flying should automaticaly and immediately be suspended for safety reasons.
We can't have pilots flying jets around wondering if the GMO is going to sack them. This is a genuine breach of safety and can have dire effect on a pilot who thinks he may be about to get sacked. I say no more on this subject as it is too horrible to contemplate
KA is under manned, overworked with moral at rock bottom, sick leave out of control and a lot of the best pilots leaving or waiting to leave in the near future.
That a GMO would even say this and want it passed on to the pilot group is cause for extreme alarm as far as safety is concerned.
Clearly he is not a fit or proper person to be in that position and the DPA should say so.
One poor guy actually completed all his sim drills to the required standard only to be told afterwards that he was too Boeing and hadn't passed. From a "TIRE" with no formal training or checking credentials and an ego that has it's own post code! (Amazing but true!)
And you were there to see the above complete his sim drills to the required standard!!!
Also, please explain what you mean by no formal training or checking credentials, I cant imagine KA would just grab a pilot and through him in the sim as a check captain with no formal training.
I cant think why a check captain would fail a guy without reason..
jy
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Finally when the new GMO tells the comitte that he is going to sack some pilots as he did recently at a DPA meeting then all flying should automaticaly and immediately be suspended for safety reasons.
Some serious allegations made in this post. If you want to follow up with some facts then I suggest that you write to your committee.
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""I cant think why a check captain would fail a guy without reason..""
Well welcome to our world. I also know of a company not a million miles from you who sacks pilots "for no reason."
Well welcome to our world. I also know of a company not a million miles from you who sacks pilots "for no reason."
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Whilst some of OEBs comments may be a touch emotive and maybe even a bit paranoid, one must ask ones self why 2 Captains failed at the end of their command course ?
Whilst 2 Captains failing is not in itself a " once in a blue moon " event, you always wonder about a C & T system that lets guys/gals through to that point in their training and then fail ?
OEB is not the first person to point the finger at some individuals in the KA trg dept., and if there are some bad eggs in there then the pilots should have some sort of recourse, even if it is another check by a different TRE.
It is not normal, in my experience, to fail ones training and then be put in the sin bin for 12 months without any further checks/training.
Whilst 2 Captains failing is not in itself a " once in a blue moon " event, you always wonder about a C & T system that lets guys/gals through to that point in their training and then fail ?
OEB is not the first person to point the finger at some individuals in the KA trg dept., and if there are some bad eggs in there then the pilots should have some sort of recourse, even if it is another check by a different TRE.
It is not normal, in my experience, to fail ones training and then be put in the sin bin for 12 months without any further checks/training.
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You have covered s many issues here that your post needs to be taken piece by piece. However to hear a cry out like this is going cause a reaction in many because after all we are a profession of put up or shut up...I believe we are coming to an end of an era where we are supposed to continuously swallow down to save face and in the process, many safe face keep their jobs and lose their families.
Your frustration is evident and whether you are one of the guys who has been chopped or a friend of one of them it is sad that you hav no where to go except this forum to ask for help.
You have talked about people being chopped for "no reason" and this has caused a reaction. There are always reasons, those reasons should only be that a person is not yet ready to take on the role for captain however I have seen people chopped for other reasons. The fact is that Unions and Training Departments often attract people whose ambition writes checks their competency and suitability cannot cash. I have seen guys decide someone was going to fail even before they took their seats in CT 5.An atmosphere is then subtly created in the sim that can hugely damage a persons performance. Many good trainers and checkers do exist but there are certainly a few bad eggs that have destroyed the confidence of good decent guys. Maybe those guys were not "macho" enough for these trainers and they demolish them. If we create an environment where someone is in the vulnerable position of command its very easy to knock them. If they complain, they have n where to go. The checker can always give good reasons why they failed. WHo is checking these checkers? The big egos and small attitude of many in C+T is huge problem.
Im very sorry to hear, regardless of the circumstances that guys and family
have had such a blow to their confidence and career in such a heartless and ruthless environment.
Your frustration is evident and whether you are one of the guys who has been chopped or a friend of one of them it is sad that you hav no where to go except this forum to ask for help.
You have talked about people being chopped for "no reason" and this has caused a reaction. There are always reasons, those reasons should only be that a person is not yet ready to take on the role for captain however I have seen people chopped for other reasons. The fact is that Unions and Training Departments often attract people whose ambition writes checks their competency and suitability cannot cash. I have seen guys decide someone was going to fail even before they took their seats in CT 5.An atmosphere is then subtly created in the sim that can hugely damage a persons performance. Many good trainers and checkers do exist but there are certainly a few bad eggs that have destroyed the confidence of good decent guys. Maybe those guys were not "macho" enough for these trainers and they demolish them. If we create an environment where someone is in the vulnerable position of command its very easy to knock them. If they complain, they have n where to go. The checker can always give good reasons why they failed. WHo is checking these checkers? The big egos and small attitude of many in C+T is huge problem.
Im very sorry to hear, regardless of the circumstances that guys and family
have had such a blow to their confidence and career in such a heartless and ruthless environment.
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Not a DPA member?
Sorry OEB but the tone of your post suggests to me that you are unwilling to part with your cash and become a DPA member, and that you are trying to get help for free from the DPA volunteers.
Please tell me I am wrong, because this is not the place to come for help.
Regards
Please tell me I am wrong, because this is not the place to come for help.
Regards
Last edited by D.B.er; 4th Mar 2008 at 06:36. Reason: typo
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Formal training, Yes, by the KA training dept. The blind leading the blind!
What required standard? Very difficult to have Standards when TIREs are allowed to make up whatever scenarios they feel like on the day.
They then publish their reports for all trainers to see 2-4 days later and it is your word against theirs.
You want standards, you need to have set scenarios, all command sims should be video taped and the report should be completed on the day and signed by both parties.
What required standard? Very difficult to have Standards when TIREs are allowed to make up whatever scenarios they feel like on the day.
They then publish their reports for all trainers to see 2-4 days later and it is your word against theirs.
You want standards, you need to have set scenarios, all command sims should be video taped and the report should be completed on the day and signed by both parties.
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""I cant think why a check captain would fail a guy without reason..""
Well welcome to our world. I also know of a company not a million miles from you who sacks pilots "for no reason."
Well welcome to our world. I also know of a company not a million miles from you who sacks pilots "for no reason."
