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The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

Old 16th Mar 2012, 11:31
  #1341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The lion city
Posts: 368
Barossa

I don't see any wrong doing with seven3. Why can't any professional take the bus to work or on a daily basis? Or you meant by driving to work or around town or by taking taxis to meet your needs is what a professional should do? What about for the environment? Or to save on our scarce natural resources?

We all need to remember that this is HKG..where the land is scarce. So one need to realized that it will not be the same as US or EU.

People here talking about how expansive HKG is! How about housing in Switzerland? In Germany? Or most of the Western Europe? Are they not expansive? What about the taxes?

To each is own. For anyone that's thinking of taking any expat jobs, one need to do his homework and if it fits in then by all means take it. One thing for sure is that we will not be able to change whats being offered.
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Old 16th Mar 2012, 11:56
  #1342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: brasil
Posts: 3
@ Tipsy Barossa: Just giving the REAL picture of living in HK with HX. Life's not too bad as what others had said. In fact, there are tons of CX and KA Capts and FOs also taking buses to work as well as shuttle bus and trains.

Just wanting to give a clear picture to everyone about the latest living conditions in HK.
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Old 16th Mar 2012, 15:31
  #1343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: taiwan
Age: 52
Posts: 23
hi sevenx3,

please check ur PM.

thanks.
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Old 16th Mar 2012, 19:06
  #1344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 676
Sevenx3- I do believe a single guy living
extremely frugally could do it on 40, certainly
not the 24 previously posted. 40 is possible with
No wife, or child. And living like a coolie
AAIGUY is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2012, 05:25
  #1345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ceduna
Age: 66
Posts: 62
[QUOTE]Barossa

I don't see any wrong doing with seven3. Why can't any professional take the bus to work or on a daily basis? Or you meant by driving to work or around town or by taking taxis to meet your needs is what a professional should do? What about for the environment? Or to save on our scarce natural resources?[QUOTE]

You can't be serious! Pilots go about polluting the lower, middle and upper reaches of the tropopause with our smoke belching contraptions and you want to be a tree hugger? Think on the positive side, taking a cab will help put food on the table for the taxi driver's family. Maybe his cab is a low consumption or low polluting hybrid as against the bus belching out nauseating black smokey fumes!
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Old 17th Mar 2012, 06:45
  #1346 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: taiwan
Age: 52
Posts: 23
Hi tippsy baroosa and AAIGUY,

what makes u think being an airline pilot can live lavishly or live like a king in any part of this world? look carefully at the term and conditions for a NEW FRESH pilot nowdays! WAKE UP! we can only consider ourself the best a working middle class level, again the best, not always.

maybe both of you well into your retirement age, thats why you a 'different' mentality (CRM).

cheers.
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Old 17th Mar 2012, 06:52
  #1347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 676
Iceman, you obviously don't understand the word 'profession'.
Dr's, Bankers, Traders and Lawyers expect to live a certain lifestyle due to the years of schooling, cost, and skill it took to get to their designation/position.

Your suggestion that a Pilot should get less, is simply ignorant.
No one is coming to Hong Kong for the Culture or the Air Quality.
It's about money.

Given an unlimited supply of it money, I would certainly never visit China, HK, Taiwan or most of Asia every again, let alone work here.

Its no wonder that other countries are full of Asians who've left to find a better life and not be surfs as you suggest. Content with public bus' and fish balls, grateful to the Dear Leader everyday for their existence.

Muppet.
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Old 17th Mar 2012, 15:37
  #1348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 23
Arrow

So what you all saying is that HKA package is not worth a singapore dollar
PA28r200hp is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2012, 19:19
  #1349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The lion city
Posts: 368
aaiguy

Aai....

I think you need to look hard at yourself. Where are you working now? What are the reasons you need to be in HKG or any part of The Asia you disliked very much?

If your country can provide of what you need you will never need to be an expat? We all have our choices and please don't be a disgrace by posting an idiotic comments!

I am sure there are professionals that would take the bus to work, I am sure there would be an accountant, lawyers in this parts of the world that makes an excellent money and yet take the public transport..again...if one decides to take the public transport by all means do and if you prefer to drive your Lamborghini to work, that's also welcomed.

It's all about personal preference
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Old 17th Mar 2012, 20:44
  #1350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 676
Etops, you're out to lunch if you believe that.
If my home country paid what I get now, I would go.
Till then I will 'enjoy' the HK experience.

No one in my home country, would ride the bus unless they
were impoverished.I'm not doing in muppet land
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Old 17th Mar 2012, 23:58
  #1351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: OZ
Posts: 34
And all for the money.
What about those poor kids that have to live in the most polluted city in the world growing up stuck in a 1700 square foot apartment with no backyard, concrete playing areas at school instead of lust green grass fields to play in, there poor young lungs sucking up all that shit in there most vital years of life and the constant coughing.

Yes all for the money and to pay the hospital bills when your kids can no longer breath.

All the money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Last edited by The Counter; 18th Mar 2012 at 00:16.
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Old 18th Mar 2012, 00:02
  #1352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 676
The counter.. You're right.
My kids don't live there any longer, I commute.
Hong Kong is a disgusting place to live and raise
a family. Won't sell my kids health for anything
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Old 18th Mar 2012, 01:57
  #1353 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Around the World
Posts: 142
@iceman: don't worry too much about the nonsense AAIGUY writes. He is *just* a FO at Dragonair, probably a bit bored of all the left turns towards BEKOL and DOTMI and who lacks the sense of reality.

Funny thing, whenever I took the S1 Bus in the past during layovers, I saw plenty of his Dragon Air Skippers taking the Bus to their office.
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Old 18th Mar 2012, 02:43
  #1354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 676
Burger thing... How many KA skippers have Ferraris?
How many have 10 million dollar houses they OWN?


Exactly.
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Old 18th Mar 2012, 05:50
  #1355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Oort cloud
Age: 61
Posts: 3
Gee, this guy is an absolute gas bag...always trying to have the last word!
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Old 18th Mar 2012, 18:35
  #1356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 275
Hi AAIGuy, I'm always interested in this word PROFESSIONAL. It is much abused and misused. You accuse Iceman of not understanding the word PROFESSION, then you yourself go on to show that you don't understand it either!

I'm a pilot. I like to think of myself as being PROFESSIONAL in my job.
But - by definition - I am not A PROFESSIONAL. Nor are most commercial pilots.

The definition of a PROFESSION is wide and varied, you can look it up on Google. You'll find dozens of elements which are supposed to define what is a PROFESSION. One of my own favourites (because for me it perfectly sums up the predicament we find ourselves in) is that a PROFESSIONAL (i.e. one who practices a PROFESSION) controls HIS OWN means of PRODUCTION.

You compared us with Doctors and Lawyers.
I would say a Doctor definitely controls his own means of production (his hands and his brain). So (for the most part) does a Lawyer.
For that matter - so does a Carpenter, or a Bricklayer, a Plumber, an Electrician etc (although these are normally referred to in the diminutive as Tradesmen - because they do not satisfy certain other elements of the term Professional).

I work for an airline. I do not own the aircraft - which is the single tool I need to pursue this occupation. Very few pilots do, outside the Air Taxi/Crop Sprayer/Display pilot cadre. Therefore, technically speaking, none of us are practicing a PROFESSION.

You may not like this opinion - indeed I've had some fairly angry responses from colleagues when I point this out. But like I said earlier - its the main reason we will always be on the back foot in our job. Every single one of us can be put out on the street, and have no hope of ever again practising our chosen 'PROFESSION' without the permission of an aircraft owner.
A PROFESSIONAL with no PROFESSION.
Read it and weep.

That said, I believe the job we do has immense value, and should be suitably remunerated. I would be the last person to turn down a payrise!

But, its not ALL about money.

HKA seems to have plenty of guys willing to sign up.
They are often guys with narrow body experience only, or wide body RHS experience which they hope to convert to LHS widebody experience very quickly. Perhaps they have the required widebody experience already, but now want a TRI or TRE qualification, or even some Management experience. All are available at HKA - at less than the going rate.

These guys have made a career choice to take less than going rate to get the upgrades they seek. Obviously they are playing a long game.
The fun will start when, having acheived their goal and found a new (more lucrative) market for their skills, they will start leaving.

Or will be paid to stay.

Until that happens - you pays your money and takes your chances.

Thats life in the Big Bad World of Aviation.

I'm sure you understand this all too well.

Last edited by Algol; 18th Mar 2012 at 18:48.
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 01:35
  #1357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Global
Age: 47
Posts: 62
well said. rants about HK living when Singapore is way ahead in inflation. Somehow people still wanna work there in many other industries including aviation. With the voluntary no pay leave granted to SIA pilots allowing them to work anywhere... it would be interesting to see slots taken up by contract pilots escaping 'expensive' singapore to live in 'cheaper' HK. lol. It's all relative now.
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 06:21
  #1358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The lion city
Posts: 368
Boxer pilot

The voluntary no pay leave is only available to FOs and SOs and not Capts. As of now, SIA does not have any expat FOs flying with them. Those expats currently flying in SIA are all Capts and on local terms..but there's a talk of ending the contract of those expats on local terms giving room for their own FOs to upgrade.
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Old 20th Mar 2012, 11:06
  #1359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Planet Earth, mostly
Posts: 438
And living like a coolie
Racist nonsense, as usual.

The fact is that you can live very well in HK on HK$40,000 per month.
The people who claim otherwise are stupid enough to think that they can scare enough pilots away that they will be able to improve their own package.
etrang is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2012, 11:10
  #1360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Global
Age: 47
Posts: 62
Yes. Thanks for clarifying that up. It is correct that expatriates are slowly being rescinded out of the company. Several are flying with Jetstarasia as well. But back to the thread. It is ironic to find that ALMOST every airline applicant in this whole forum will get news that would discourage from ever joining this profession. Most have truths to what is being said but it is depressing for a new joiner to ever see that there is probably no Airline he can join today who will screw him over, delay his progression, piss poor rostering in some cases, bad management , bad staff benefits and having this impending doomsday approaching environment surrounding him everywhere he faces. What and who then would be the best place to join today then? The grass is always gonna be greener on the other side but for now, I don't see a mass exodus of pilots leaving HK for that matter.
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