The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

[jungleman]

Capt Package

Basic (All in HKD)

>3000 PIC JET 50,000
>1500 PIC JET 40,000

Housing Allowance - 15,000

A330 Aircraft Allowance - 20,000

Flight Allowance

75 hrs - $700 per hr
>75 hrs - $1000 per hr

Aircraft & Flight Allowance payable only when operational

[PositiveCLB]

So you get USD $16,000 for flying 76 hours?? No way!!?? Some people who got fired before the "demise" will get really fooking jealous.



Flew with them to BKK recently.. very pleasant flight attendants, pilots sounded very professional/friendly on PA, very very smooth landing and surprisingly they left and arrived on time and in the correct airport!

2 thumbs up!

[mizzy]

Hong Hong Express jobs, payscales and entry requirements.

hi guys,

this is what i have found on the net, how it helps.

their management is still a mess, not just a mess, is a HUGE mess.... but i am confident that they will still be able to survive for sometime, unless any unexpected huge financial crisis hits China. Their mother company, the Hainan group is loaded with tons of cash...

their pilots, assume that the attached pay scale is correct, i believed (in my iponion) many experienced pilots, particularly from the pacific rim region are willing to join. however, will to join doesnt mean it's a great company or consider as a long term career.

[747ANC]

SIM evaluation 2010 B737-800 ??

which type of simulator are they HKA using for sim evaluation during an interview day (2010 interview) It was B737-300 in 2006. How about 2010 this year.

[QAR]

Can anyone advise how long will the training period take in HKA 330...

thanks

[Kate62]

Company
TOTAL PACKAGE USD (net)
Annual leave
Consecutive days off each month
free tickets to home country
HKE HKA (737)
9129
16 days (plus12 days public and statutory holidays, see COS)
Maximum 3 DDO consecutive if you put in a roster request as per roster dept policy.
NONE
Air china (737)
11000
28
7 consecutive most months
7 international return p.a
Air India Express (737)
10300
28
14 consecutive every 2 months
6 international return p.a
ANA (737)
18000
30
11 consecutive a month
12 confirmed a year
Asiana (737)
11500
30
16 consecutive every 2 months
8 confirmed p.a plus 18 i.d 90
Cathay Captain (A330)
17450
42
Average has at lease one block of 7 days.
confirmed ticket for entire family
Dragonair (narrow body)
18000
70
not commuting but expect a block of 7 days off.
confirmed ticket for entire family
Fly Dubai (737)
12500
42
not commuting but expect a block of 5 days off.
confirmed ticket for entire family
Hainan (737)
11800
30 (paid extra 9800USD if pilot wishes to sell holidays back to the company)
7
confirmed ticket for entire family
JAL express (737)
12240
20
14 days every 2 months
6 confirmed return tickets p.a
Korean Air (737)
10360
24
11 consecutive per month
12 confirmed business class p.a
Metrojet(light jet)
14200
42
Expect roster with 7 days consecutive a month
confirmed ticket for entire family
Pacific Airlines Vietnam (737)
9500
42
not commuting but expect a block of 5 days off.
confirmed ticket for entire family
Shanghai Airlines (737)
13000
21
14 days every 2 months
confirmed ticket for entire family
Shenzhen Airlines (737)
13000
34
not commuting but expect a block of 4 days off.
confirmed ticket for entire family
Singapore airlines (A330)
14000
42
Expect a block of 5 consecutive.
confirmed ticket for entire family
Skymark (737)
12800
20
9 consecutive each month
confirmed business ticket each MONTH
Qantas (737)
11600
42
not commuting but expect a block of 7 days off.
N/A
Jet airways (737)
9700
15
14 consecutive every2 months
confirmed ticket for entire family
Deer Air (A320)
11833
30
14 consecutive every 2 months
free on Network, unlimited i.d 75
Tianjin (Emb 190)
10625
30
not commuting but expect a block of 4 days off.
not sure probably
Oman Air (737)
11000
30
not commuting but expect a block of 6 days off.
Staff travel on Hainan
Silk Air (A319)
14200
30?
not sure
confirmed ticket for entire family

278608



AVERAGE (not inc hke/a)
12664.00




· These are Captains contracts. All are narrow body contracts besides Cathay and Singapore which were included for location comparison.
· Companies used in this survey were random companies currently hiring. They were not chosen for there high salary and represent a good comparison of aircraft type and geographic location.
· These figures are not fiction; they are fact and can be verified by viewing the various pilot contracts from the various employment agencies.
· All companies listed are in the Asia pacific area and 2 from the Middle East . All companies do similar flying to Hong Kong Express and Airlines.
· Annual leave is separate to consecutive days off. If a company allows consecutive days off it is in addition to annual leave.
· When consecutive days off are given to the pilot, they are free, not a combination of DDO and annual leave. For example Asiana pilots would get 6 lots of 16 consecutive days off per year, PLUS 30 days annual leave.
· Total package includes net salary, housing and completion bonus only, other benefits such as loss of license insurance, schooling, good health cover,15% provident fund etc, are in most cases given but not included in this calculation for simplification.
· Salary/package is AFTER tax.
· *If hourly pay is part of the package this survey is based on 60 hours a month.
· Almost all companies above provide EXCELLENT 5 star accommodation on layovers, with the exception of the Hainan group, HKE/HKA, and perhaps Shenzhen Airlines.
· *Crew hotels are usually chosen carefully as companies realize that staff satisfaction is important and so is good health and rest. These Hotels usually serve western food at the hotel with a room service option for those 1 am arrivals. Hotels have at least 1 English TV channel but usually 10 or more, unlike Hong Kong Airlines and Express provided hotels which have no English speaking channels. I ask you would you be satisfied personally with a hotel that only served really bad food from Iceland (say pickled Herring) and the only language on television was Iranian or something you did not understand? Because that is my life every time I stay at one of our hotels.
· Hotel usually located in a good location with option to eat at western style restaurant near the hotel. At most Hong Kong Airlines and Express locations they only have local restaurants of questionable quality in the area. One KFC or McDonalds a 10 minute walk away does not qualify as a "western restaurant"
· Overnight allowances in most contracts above is double that given Hong Kong Express and Airlines.
· Many of these packages are here just for reference and actually bring the average of all salaries down. I.e. Indian contracts which can not even compare to Hong Kong cost of living.
· Our companies only provide 16 annual leave days per year. Not 28 as most people think. (12 of the 28 are public and statutory holidays. They are included in annual leave giving a total of 28. See section 4.2 of our conditions of service(COS)
· Hong Kong Airlines and Express are the only companies in this survey that do not offer free travel home each year.
· Good provident funds pay 10% of salary. Several contracts pay this and up to 15% of basic salary. Our company does contribute extra compared to Hong Kong minimums but it low compared to the average of the airlines.
· To our package up to the average of this survey would require at least 40% PAY RISE.
· Hong Kong according to several surveys is the most expensive city in the world for expatriates to live, even higher than Tokyo for housing. We are Expatriates. No locals.
· As Singapore , Hong Kong and Tokyo have similar high costs of living, the average salary for airlines in these cities is $15,111 USD net
· *Hong Kong Airlines and Express current salary would require a 78% payrise to equal the average net salary for “high cost cities.”.

ANA (737)
18000

Cathay first year Captain (A330)
17450

Dragonair (narrow body)
18000

Metrojet(light jet)
14200

JAL express (737)
12240

Singapore airlines (A330)
14000

Skymark (737)
12800

Silk Air (A319)
14200


120890

AVERAGE net salary
15111.25

*Average excluding widebody operators is $14,906


The info above has been circulating around for a few months so that HKA/HKE captains could compare their contracts with other airlines.

[EXXMAN]

Finally

Well its finally happened,

Ronal Lim has been terminated from HKA, how this useless prick kept his job for so long is a mystery to many, looks like his luck finally ran out.
I wonder who will be next.

For those interested his farewell drinks will be held in a yet to be decided phone box.


good bye and good riddance


XOP's........ The only way to operate.........

[xskyman]

the next must be this 2 grd managers, his d good CathyC & the fking Edwar Chg!! M

[doubledeckera380]

opening champagne

celbrating, so wen mr fukching is next to get terminated?

[xskyman]

Hrs

bedwet EC u not do yr job, bus skipper all over 100/28day !! M

[doubledeckera380]

hahahah bedwet EC, serves him right, he muzt be shipting his pants now

[THRidle]

Hey Guy's, for the sake of us oldies with a few hours under our belt, could we cut down on the Mobile SMS and go back to good old fashion words

[greenwindshield]

Hapiness Is Not Yet Complete

To finalize the pack we need Madam Wu and Cawboy Ricky on the same way....STREET !!!!!

Congrats HKA pilots!!! Part of the trash was already removed!!

[changi.prison]

Facts
Captain salary 65,000
Co-Pilot 45,000
* included in this amount is 15,000 which is at company discretion. They have and will in the future change this any time they wish with no consultation with you.

If you love minimum rest trip away from home; you will Love HKA.

Come to work for HKA if you love the following.

• If you like last minute roster changes
• Low salary
• High living cost.
• You contract means nothing.
• Uncertainty, and contract changes without consultation with the pilot group
• A company that has made it policy not to communicate with pilots on contractual or matters about terms and condition
• Management that are so childish they have fist fights in the office more than once
• Your annual leave will only be approved 3 weeks before you get it. You can never apply for something 6 months or even 2 months in advance. If you try to request annual leave off 12 months in advance for your brother wedding it will be impossible.
• Your 401k (retirement savings) are less that 5% salary
• If you take sick leave you get penilized. This encourage people to work sick and spread disease and worse operate when not 100% well.
• You do not get extra to work on your days off.
• Medical is really not good for anything.
• No schooling, and some of the highest primary and secondary school fees in the world
• No Housing allowance and rents are at all time high in Hong Kong
• The company has no master plan. No direction
• Load factor to Moscow is very low, can not be sustained.
• Money losses are huge
• Obvious bad decisions are being made and we just shake our head in disbelief
• Annual leave 1/2 that of most airlines
• A company that has many court cases against them, and has lost many previously
• You will always be late, and forced to extend duty.
• If the arriving aircraft is late you will not be advised prior to leaving home for duty, you find out after sign on that the aircraft is running 3 hours late
• Long Haul roster the worst I have seen in my life
• A Company so disorganized that is could not even foresee the future pilot requirements for training
• Even type rated pilots will be highly Bonded
• No loss of licence insurance
• Poor support and assistance at outports. You’re on your own.

One positive though. That festering puss of a human called R.Lim is gone and the company can only be better without him. Unfortunately the damage that he and his slime ball team have done to the company and its image in the pilot community will take a decade to repair.

Still want to come to HKA? Before making the move, come to Hong Kong see the rents at 30,000 a month, and read all this info here which is still valid. The company is sub-standard. The management are making no steps to listen to pilot suggestions on how to improve morale and conditions. Do you really want to associate yourself with that? You can do better. Good luck

[cpahka]

Its really a hell place you are working for ?!

[doubledeckera380]

changi.prison is 101% correct and I 102% agree with him. HKA still has a long way to go, with the remaining crap still inside.

[doubledeckera380]

and the buck doesnt stop there, they also advertised on the HKG Labour Department website. Why, vbecause its free, now they are flooded with resumes from KMB, Airbus, Newbus, any driver with a bus licence

[lobak]

A330 LH flights

I heard that the A330 crew already flew exceed HK law of max allow, true or not ?

[mizzy]

they do things like walking on a wire and the HK limitation is very hard to bust. what they did to deal with the crew shortage was doing o/n SVO in the past 2 months and continue to offer short term contract for pilots from Airbus. this may also is the reason for so many cancelation of their early morning BJS service. they were busted once by the HKCAD of allowing all airbus crew to operate the flight on their behalf, in short, no HKA a330 pilots onboard.

[mizzy]

and the buck doesnt stop there, they also advertised on the HKG Labour Department website. Why, vbecause its free, now they are flooded with resumes from KMB, Airbus, Newbus, any driver with a bus licence

hhaha.... you can tell how smart and what kind of quality their management are....