The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines
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Think the flight in your country is the safest? THINK AGAIN!!
Safety checks after OzJet
mid-air scare
(Source: www.news.com.au. 03 January 2008)
Air safety authorities have ordered checks on black box flight recorders and damaged wing parts from a second OzJet flight following separate mid-air incidents two days apart.
The incidents involved Boeing 737-200 aircraft which developed severe vibrations after wing malfunctions. The planes still were grounded yesterday, one in Port Moresby, the other in Noumea.
In the first incident on Saturday, about 100 passengers on Brisbane to Norfolk Island Flight 334 were told to don lifejackets and prepare for an ocean landing after the plane started rocking violently.
In a separate OzJet incident on New Year's Eve, a Port Moresby to Brisbane plane returned to Papua New Guinea after developing severe vibrations. In that case, the safety bureau said the problem involved a different wing part, known as an elevator trim tab.
bla..bla..bla...
Safety checks after OzJet
mid-air scare(Source: www.news.com.au. 03 January 2008)
Air safety authorities have ordered checks on black box flight recorders and damaged wing parts from a second OzJet flight following separate mid-air incidents two days apart.
The incidents involved Boeing 737-200 aircraft which developed severe vibrations after wing malfunctions. The planes still were grounded yesterday, one in Port Moresby, the other in Noumea.
In the first incident on Saturday, about 100 passengers on Brisbane to Norfolk Island Flight 334 were told to don lifejackets and prepare for an ocean landing after the plane started rocking violently.
In a separate OzJet incident on New Year's Eve, a Port Moresby to Brisbane plane returned to Papua New Guinea after developing severe vibrations. In that case, the safety bureau said the problem involved a different wing part, known as an elevator trim tab.
bla..bla..bla...
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With regard to early question vis-a-vis my sim partner, that is really not public info. I said he was a good guy and he is. I am not going to post his strengths online. I respect him way too much for that.
Last edited by AAIGUY; 17th Mar 2008 at 15:39.
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Clarify
Quote "This kind of transparency does not create a rift between pilots and keeps the expats happy as the management has given the expectations in advance so no surprise let alone fire 14 qualified pilots...."
Left Wing,
I would like to clarify if these 14 pilots were actually hired by the new flight management, and fired them by their own hands?
Left Wing,
I would like to clarify if these 14 pilots were actually hired by the new flight management, and fired them by their own hands?
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Doubts
Quote "The package that the previous flt ops management presented to their bosses would have actaully kept people had it been approved."
Dear Brown Seal,
You are saying that there is another package is actually better than the one you all are offered on the desk of the senior management now. I got a question here. Why didn't the previous flight management executed the "better package" before new guys come over, since it had been approved by the senior management.
I would like to say if it really exists (I am not here to challenging your integrity.) And the preivous management implemented it before the so called SQ snake came over. There are at least 3 goals can be achieved:
Firstly, the names of the preivous flight managment team will be missed forever.
Secondly, it will piss off the new coming guys, 'cause they cannot turn it over.
Last but not least, it will show to the rest of the aviation world, they are responsible to their fellow pilots and live with their words when they are still in their last minute power.
I am not here trying to be a smart ass, but I just doubt of what have actually happened
Dear Brown Seal,
You are saying that there is another package is actually better than the one you all are offered on the desk of the senior management now. I got a question here. Why didn't the previous flight management executed the "better package" before new guys come over, since it had been approved by the senior management.
I would like to say if it really exists (I am not here to challenging your integrity.) And the preivous management implemented it before the so called SQ snake came over. There are at least 3 goals can be achieved:
Firstly, the names of the preivous flight managment team will be missed forever.Secondly, it will piss off the new coming guys, 'cause they cannot turn it over.Last but not least, it will show to the rest of the aviation world, they are responsible to their fellow pilots and live with their words when they are still in their last minute power. I am not here trying to be a smart ass, but I just doubt of what have actually happened
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AAIGUY,
Thank you for your complement to the Chinese Captain. I suspect that this Chinese Capt. is neither from CX nor KA, which has proven the point that Chinese can be professional airlines capt. as well. In addition, he is trained by one of the airlines in China.
In my point of view, most of the aviators can be professional airlines capt., it is just a matter of training quality and how much you want them to be successful. There is a Chinese saying in China "There isn't any dumb students, but only incompetent teachers"
Thank you for your complement to the Chinese Captain. I suspect that this Chinese Capt. is neither from CX nor KA, which has proven the point that Chinese can be professional airlines capt. as well. In addition, he is trained by one of the airlines in China.
In my point of view, most of the aviators can be professional airlines capt., it is just a matter of training quality and how much you want them to be successful. There is a Chinese saying in China "There isn't any dumb students, but only incompetent teachers"
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Hey Gooseman Fighter
I'm sorry but you miss the point entirely. How many people were killed in the incident you refer to? How many injuries were there, how many runway over-runs, hull losses or maybe even hull damages or maybe even broken finger nails? Please tell me, can you?........the answer is nill, none, nada.
There is no comparison between the number of people that are killed in the region when perfectly serviceable aircraft are pranged with monotonous regularity by operators referred to in the IATA survey, and a perfectly safe air-return for a malfunction that did not even cause somebody to stubb thier toe.
Yes there are "incidents" that occur within every system and in every country but not with the endemic regularity that occur in certain places.
Think the flight in your country is the safest? THINK AGAIN!!
There is no comparison between the number of people that are killed in the region when perfectly serviceable aircraft are pranged with monotonous regularity by operators referred to in the IATA survey, and a perfectly safe air-return for a malfunction that did not even cause somebody to stubb thier toe.
Yes there are "incidents" that occur within every system and in every country but not with the endemic regularity that occur in certain places.
Last edited by Hoofharted; 17th Mar 2008 at 02:26.
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Chaz back..
The fight by Starz was good to hear
Working being done for us by passed HKA brother.
Hkapilots need to bring down the Wu'Las too.
As to other comments by Gooseman fighter../ SE Pilot.
There will be always mechanical accident.
Pilot from Malaysia,Sing, and Indonesia actually KILL people by pilot error. This happen all the time, even on Sunday, some 60 yr pilot fly his plane into water tower in Indonesia..
Sorry , your just wrong. Chinese pilot we have good. Above pilots just very bad.
Working being done for us by passed HKA brother.
Hkapilots need to bring down the Wu'Las too.
As to other comments by Gooseman fighter../ SE Pilot.
There will be always mechanical accident.
Pilot from Malaysia,Sing, and Indonesia actually KILL people by pilot error. This happen all the time, even on Sunday, some 60 yr pilot fly his plane into water tower in Indonesia..
Sorry , your just wrong. Chinese pilot we have good. Above pilots just very bad.
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chaz737, PLEASE THINK CAREFULLY before you reply to a post or maybe post what you want to post such as " pilots from malaysia, sing, indonesia actually KILL people by pilot error" Just to reply back to you humbly, no matter where all of us pilots comes from, we are all human & we do all make mistakes including yourself. So PLEASE THINK CAREFULLY before you make such a comment because you could have offended many other pilots from around the world !
malaysia has malaysian airlines, air asia, maswings, transmile etc ... these guys are flying at almost every corner of the world at any time and also have many expat pilots (from many countries) flown and still flying for them. do you think they KILL people ?
sing has singapore airlines, jetstar asia, silk air, many of them are locals including expats has been flying for them and even ended their career with them which also includes locals and do you think they KILL people with their errors flying around the world ?
indonesia, yes i do have to agree they did had some incidents/accidents but the local gov is trying their very best to resolve all these issues but not all indonesian pilots which have lots of experience from flying not well maintained a/c's , poor work conditions, etc but nevertheless they do have experience where many may not have and also do understand the condition that indonesia is in for so many years ? there are also alot of indonesian guys flying for alot of major carriers around the world, they also have families to go home too after their flights, so again, do you think they're out there to KILL people with their mistakes or they do them intentionally just because the pilots you quoted as per your comment ?
there are also alot of pilots from your home country flying for all of the KILLER pilots comes from that you mentioned above my friend.
i do not intend to start an argument here, but just want to get things straight and we are all pilots here !
malaysia has malaysian airlines, air asia, maswings, transmile etc ... these guys are flying at almost every corner of the world at any time and also have many expat pilots (from many countries) flown and still flying for them. do you think they KILL people ?
sing has singapore airlines, jetstar asia, silk air, many of them are locals including expats has been flying for them and even ended their career with them which also includes locals and do you think they KILL people with their errors flying around the world ?
indonesia, yes i do have to agree they did had some incidents/accidents but the local gov is trying their very best to resolve all these issues but not all indonesian pilots which have lots of experience from flying not well maintained a/c's , poor work conditions, etc but nevertheless they do have experience where many may not have and also do understand the condition that indonesia is in for so many years ? there are also alot of indonesian guys flying for alot of major carriers around the world, they also have families to go home too after their flights, so again, do you think they're out there to KILL people with their mistakes or they do them intentionally just because the pilots you quoted as per your comment ?
there are also alot of pilots from your home country flying for all of the KILLER pilots comes from that you mentioned above my friend.
i do not intend to start an argument here, but just want to get things straight and we are all pilots here !
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It's all about CRM - nothing more, nothing less.
The traditions and culture of many Asian countries is incompatible with the optimum, and safest, way to operate modern aircraft - to have company operations manuals that reflect the need for both Captains, and First Officers, to follow a procedure to resolve "inconsistencies" in flight path with the final provision that F/O's MUST take over if the safety of the aircraft is in doubt.
Provides a clear requirement (and support) for F/O's to speak up and a clear requirement (and company mandated requirement) for Captains to listen and act accordingly.
Undoubtedly some companies in Asia have such a system however many (especially those newer companies run by geriatric retired/discarded 18th century thinkers from established companies) do not - AND NEVER WILL HAVE.
The right and need for tradition/culture to override safety is primary in their minds; of course by all means discuss it to death but under no circumstances do anything about it!
REMEMBER: it wasn't Korean Air management who decided driving aircraft into the ground and killing people was a bad thing, it was the insurance companies who said "weeeeell you can keep doing that if you really want but we won't insure your aircraft so it's gonna cost you a s**tload on your balance sheet; if you want continued insurance this is what is required...."
Maybe it's time someone (ICAO, IATA, someone else, really don't care) stood up and said "for the benefit of international aviation safety, bearing in mind the difficulties at times to accept safety is more important than culture/tradition, this is what is required of your operation manual and training or else you don't fly...."
It's only a year ago in Indonesia that an F/O proved well and truely he would accept having an aircraft crash, and people die (maybe even himself!) rather than defy the culture and tradition.
In modern commercial aviation the ability to manipulate an aircraft is secondary to the ability to make decisions based on information from numerous sources - and for the Captain to be accountable for his actions (or non-actions.)
It's called CRM - not the strongest aspect of many companies based in Asia.
Just a few random thoughts
cheers
galdian
The traditions and culture of many Asian countries is incompatible with the optimum, and safest, way to operate modern aircraft - to have company operations manuals that reflect the need for both Captains, and First Officers, to follow a procedure to resolve "inconsistencies" in flight path with the final provision that F/O's MUST take over if the safety of the aircraft is in doubt.
Provides a clear requirement (and support) for F/O's to speak up and a clear requirement (and company mandated requirement) for Captains to listen and act accordingly.
Undoubtedly some companies in Asia have such a system however many (especially those newer companies run by geriatric retired/discarded 18th century thinkers from established companies) do not - AND NEVER WILL HAVE.
The right and need for tradition/culture to override safety is primary in their minds; of course by all means discuss it to death but under no circumstances do anything about it!
REMEMBER: it wasn't Korean Air management who decided driving aircraft into the ground and killing people was a bad thing, it was the insurance companies who said "weeeeell you can keep doing that if you really want but we won't insure your aircraft so it's gonna cost you a s**tload on your balance sheet; if you want continued insurance this is what is required...."
Maybe it's time someone (ICAO, IATA, someone else, really don't care) stood up and said "for the benefit of international aviation safety, bearing in mind the difficulties at times to accept safety is more important than culture/tradition, this is what is required of your operation manual and training or else you don't fly...."
It's only a year ago in Indonesia that an F/O proved well and truely he would accept having an aircraft crash, and people die (maybe even himself!) rather than defy the culture and tradition.
In modern commercial aviation the ability to manipulate an aircraft is secondary to the ability to make decisions based on information from numerous sources - and for the Captain to be accountable for his actions (or non-actions.)
It's called CRM - not the strongest aspect of many companies based in Asia.
Just a few random thoughts
cheers
galdian
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Statistics
http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/
With some interesting exceptions these figures really do speak for themselves. Asian airlines are comparable to African/Middle Eastern airlines with their crash rates. And these figures are not uptodate either, with the glaring omissions being One-two-go and Adam Air. Care to refute the facts Pilotinasia et al?
With some interesting exceptions these figures really do speak for themselves. Asian airlines are comparable to African/Middle Eastern airlines with their crash rates. And these figures are not uptodate either, with the glaring omissions being One-two-go and Adam Air. Care to refute the facts Pilotinasia et al?
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Think the flight in your country is the safest? THINK AGAIN!!
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Another interesting week with HKA.
2 more FO resign today (western FO's)
Singasnake Li-La does so poorly on his TRE course that he can't even be recommended.
FAIL.
Amazing.. he did so bad he failed his chance to fail!
Oh my LA! The Hainan overlords won't like that la..
Oh yes.. and this just in....
Indopilot @ Adam Air did kill everybody due to his being a poor pilot.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/p...207086596.html
2 more FO resign today (western FO's)
Singasnake Li-La does so poorly on his TRE course that he can't even be recommended.
FAIL.
Amazing.. he did so bad he failed his chance to fail!Oh my LA! The Hainan overlords won't like that la..
Oh yes.. and this just in....
Indopilot @ Adam Air did kill everybody due to his being a poor pilot.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/p...207086596.html
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Loss of Face Lah
So Little Dickie didn't rise to the occasion?
Does this mean that he won't be writing the much publicised HKA AEX course? Remember, this was the last course that HKA were going to outsource, "We wil have our own examiner's course approved by the HKCAD."
I suppose their little pet over at the "Kowloon Fried CAD" could have lent them some scholarly assistance, he is very experienced after all.
Does this mean that he won't be writing the much publicised HKA AEX course? Remember, this was the last course that HKA were going to outsource, "We wil have our own examiner's course approved by the HKCAD."
I suppose their little pet over at the "Kowloon Fried CAD" could have lent them some scholarly assistance, he is very experienced after all.
Red Faced Dick
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But you can still log formation flying (single engine aircraft!) as multi-engine, cant you...... I dont work for HKA, but I laugh every time I hear that one.
Last edited by Humber10; 31st Mar 2008 at 08:47.
If you led a formation for solo students in the RAF as an instructor, you could count that as instructional flying. But I guess that doesn't really impress. If people really believe that they need extra multi hours this way, they must really be scraping the barrell!
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Sound like a pack of typical racist, disorganized, idiots.
Their actions WILL bite them in the arse, cant wait to see it.
Their actions WILL bite them in the arse, cant wait to see it.
Last edited by venturi101; 6th Apr 2008 at 09:55.