The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines
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dear friends,
Can some person PM me name and details of a journalist that would be interested in running an article on the company's treatment of pilots and the new pilot contract. I think the public deservce to know what is going on. We need to expose some of these really poor management decisions.
I also need the private emails of the major shareholders of HKA and HKE as i wish to inform them what is really going on.
Please tell the news what is going on to all journalist, friends, and pilots. I am sure no pilot will join this company if they knew.
Thank you my friends.
Can some person PM me name and details of a journalist that would be interested in running an article on the company's treatment of pilots and the new pilot contract. I think the public deservce to know what is going on. We need to expose some of these really poor management decisions.
I also need the private emails of the major shareholders of HKA and HKE as i wish to inform them what is really going on.
Please tell the news what is going on to all journalist, friends, and pilots. I am sure no pilot will join this company if they knew.
Thank you my friends.
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Dear all. I have emailed my story to the papers (emails below). I hope they publish it. They want YOU to contact them individually with your opinions of HKE HKA. The more pilots that write in, the more they realize that state of affairs here. You can write anonymously. Please do it. What they are doing is criminal. You can write anonymously. Set up a fake yahoo or hotmail address. Use the emails below. Write and send now. They want a copy of the old contract and the new one, and your opinion of what is going on, and how the company went about implementing the changes. I.e. ruthless and illegal contract changes.
Regards Intelligent pilot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
mate... i received an email from one of the guys on here to distribute the contact details of some reporters from South China Morning Port and Korean herald to expose these pricks.
He has encouraged us to send separate emails to the contact below outlining the corruption in hka and hkcad.
I will type my story up for them after this.
, 
, 
, 
, 
spread the word and this email
Regards Intelligent pilot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
mate... i received an email from one of the guys on here to distribute the contact details of some reporters from South China Morning Port and Korean herald to expose these pricks.
He has encouraged us to send separate emails to the contact below outlining the corruption in hka and hkcad.
I will type my story up for them after this.
spread the word and this email
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Intelligent pilot
Good luck dude. I hope you succeed. But remember you are dealing with a bunch of spineless, unethical, selfish, uneducated and unqualified idiots that lie through their teeth to their superiors and to anyone that challenges them.
Not only that, you have the gutless South Americans who would rather watch their friends and comrades get fired than speak up. And then the cheap labour from Indonesia that would gladly accept money in however little form.
All you have left are the Aussies and Kiwis to help you out but the singa swines already systematically fired all them. They knew they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they all remained. If they were going to succeed, they'd have to get rid of any form of intelligence or people with pride and a backbone.
I don't think you have the capability to be as low and unhumane as these singa twats. Try and think of the most disgusting, unfair, unethical, dirty thing you can do to these guys, and it won't even be anywhere near what level they operate at.
I really hope you do succeed, but you should just let them f*ck it up for themselves like they did last summer. My bet is they won't make it through this one.
Just keep your wits about you and stand up for yourself if your unfortunate enought to fly with one.
Everyone thought the incident at Stars might have knocked some sense into Madam Wu. He must be thicker then we all thought.
Good luck dude. I hope you succeed. But remember you are dealing with a bunch of spineless, unethical, selfish, uneducated and unqualified idiots that lie through their teeth to their superiors and to anyone that challenges them.
Not only that, you have the gutless South Americans who would rather watch their friends and comrades get fired than speak up. And then the cheap labour from Indonesia that would gladly accept money in however little form.
All you have left are the Aussies and Kiwis to help you out but the singa swines already systematically fired all them. They knew they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they all remained. If they were going to succeed, they'd have to get rid of any form of intelligence or people with pride and a backbone.
I don't think you have the capability to be as low and unhumane as these singa twats. Try and think of the most disgusting, unfair, unethical, dirty thing you can do to these guys, and it won't even be anywhere near what level they operate at.
I really hope you do succeed, but you should just let them f*ck it up for themselves like they did last summer. My bet is they won't make it through this one.
Just keep your wits about you and stand up for yourself if your unfortunate enought to fly with one.
Everyone thought the incident at Stars might have knocked some sense into Madam Wu. He must be thicker then we all thought.
Last edited by mass debator; 27th Mar 2009 at 16:07.
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United Please
Dear fellow pilots,
I am sorry to hear that all of you are tortured by a group of brutal beasts. I wish you, from both side HKE & HKA can be united together because it is the only way to gain your respect from the company, to show that you have the sense of professionalism and to survive. For those who decide to leave the company for good. I am happy for you. For those who decide to take the ****, the following is my personal suggestions:
First of all, whatever the company presents in the meeting is just a proposal only. It should not be considered as a finalization. It is your right and responsibility to raise any concerns and suggestions.
2) The HKE pilots association needs to stand up for all the pilots in both side, try to reduce the damage to minimum (for instance, profit sharing should be introduced in to the contract.)
3) The HKE pilots association should represent all pilots (members/non-members) to seek for legal advices including new contract comprehension from either labor department or law firms. In additional, any further contacts with the company, your own lawyers should be presented or represent.
4) All pilots should claim their gratuities before signing the new contracts (otherwise, you may not be able to collect it at the end of your 3 years service or you will lose it when you find a better job before finishing your 3 years service. Anyway since they want to end your present contract it is better to clear everything before signing a new one.)
5) Whatever promises the company makes in the meetings needed to be presented in the new contract, such as command up-grade, A330 or A320 conversion (in the company expenses) opportunities prior to any new joining pilots in the future.
6) Pay schemes for new joining pilots in the future should be either same as what you are getting in the new contract or your pay scheme should be automatically altered if there is any improvement.
7) The company needs to freeze the pilot recruitment for a period of time, in the case your flight time and pay can be guaranteed, and also jobs can be guaranteed for that period of time. And also all the flight hours which may generate every month should be evenly distributed to each pilot within 5 hours margin. Otherwise the company needs to pay the differences to prevent from either corruption or special instructions from management. Flight swap should be done with public address by the crew member.
Remark: Anything they guarantee needed to be in black and white. Don’t take any verbal promise.
Management thoughts
1) Company will start taking new pilots once you all sign the new contracts (they have the money donation from all of you) it is because they are afraid of the flight operations will be interfered with the present pilots.
2) The pay for new pilots will most likely be higher than you all, because that how the market price is for A330 & A320 type rated pilots as you know (if they are going to operate the A330 & A320.)
3) The command up-graded will not happen again in this coming year or 2. Why? It is because they don’t have the need. Furthermore the company knows that most of you will leave once you get enough PIC.
4) A free A330/ A320 conversion course may not offer to everyone. Why? It is because these 2 type ratings are more valuable than the B737-800 and getting popular in the world. In order to enhance the cost control, they may even ask you to pay for the type rating. Once again, they believe most of you will leave once you have 500 or more hours on type. So why should they by the way? But if you pay for your own type rating they know that you will stay at least for a year or more to build enough hours, but they will pay you less. If you don’t pay for your type they will claim that you are not qualified to the new fleet they can by all means lay off you or ask you to resign with very little compensations. So they will be in the win-win situation.
Believe me they are indeed extremely scared about you guys and girls united together at this moment. They are just bluffing of closing the business. It is because there is not turning point for the company by the fact that they have lost so much in the past few years.
At the end, for all pilots, you all have families to feed. The reason you travel thousands miles to Hong Kong because of the better pay scales, the better service conditions and the better opportunities. If you take whatever the company offers to you right now, I can guarantee that you will be treated like **** in the future with no respect from them at all. So think carefully before jumping into it.
Good luck!!
I am sorry to hear that all of you are tortured by a group of brutal beasts. I wish you, from both side HKE & HKA can be united together because it is the only way to gain your respect from the company, to show that you have the sense of professionalism and to survive. For those who decide to leave the company for good. I am happy for you. For those who decide to take the ****, the following is my personal suggestions:
First of all, whatever the company presents in the meeting is just a proposal only. It should not be considered as a finalization. It is your right and responsibility to raise any concerns and suggestions.
2) The HKE pilots association needs to stand up for all the pilots in both side, try to reduce the damage to minimum (for instance, profit sharing should be introduced in to the contract.)
3) The HKE pilots association should represent all pilots (members/non-members) to seek for legal advices including new contract comprehension from either labor department or law firms. In additional, any further contacts with the company, your own lawyers should be presented or represent.
4) All pilots should claim their gratuities before signing the new contracts (otherwise, you may not be able to collect it at the end of your 3 years service or you will lose it when you find a better job before finishing your 3 years service. Anyway since they want to end your present contract it is better to clear everything before signing a new one.)
5) Whatever promises the company makes in the meetings needed to be presented in the new contract, such as command up-grade, A330 or A320 conversion (in the company expenses) opportunities prior to any new joining pilots in the future.
6) Pay schemes for new joining pilots in the future should be either same as what you are getting in the new contract or your pay scheme should be automatically altered if there is any improvement.
7) The company needs to freeze the pilot recruitment for a period of time, in the case your flight time and pay can be guaranteed, and also jobs can be guaranteed for that period of time. And also all the flight hours which may generate every month should be evenly distributed to each pilot within 5 hours margin. Otherwise the company needs to pay the differences to prevent from either corruption or special instructions from management. Flight swap should be done with public address by the crew member.
Remark: Anything they guarantee needed to be in black and white. Don’t take any verbal promise.
Management thoughts
1) Company will start taking new pilots once you all sign the new contracts (they have the money donation from all of you) it is because they are afraid of the flight operations will be interfered with the present pilots.
2) The pay for new pilots will most likely be higher than you all, because that how the market price is for A330 & A320 type rated pilots as you know (if they are going to operate the A330 & A320.)
3) The command up-graded will not happen again in this coming year or 2. Why? It is because they don’t have the need. Furthermore the company knows that most of you will leave once you get enough PIC.
4) A free A330/ A320 conversion course may not offer to everyone. Why? It is because these 2 type ratings are more valuable than the B737-800 and getting popular in the world. In order to enhance the cost control, they may even ask you to pay for the type rating. Once again, they believe most of you will leave once you have 500 or more hours on type. So why should they by the way? But if you pay for your own type rating they know that you will stay at least for a year or more to build enough hours, but they will pay you less. If you don’t pay for your type they will claim that you are not qualified to the new fleet they can by all means lay off you or ask you to resign with very little compensations. So they will be in the win-win situation.
Believe me they are indeed extremely scared about you guys and girls united together at this moment. They are just bluffing of closing the business. It is because there is not turning point for the company by the fact that they have lost so much in the past few years.
At the end, for all pilots, you all have families to feed. The reason you travel thousands miles to Hong Kong because of the better pay scales, the better service conditions and the better opportunities. If you take whatever the company offers to you right now, I can guarantee that you will be treated like **** in the future with no respect from them at all. So think carefully before jumping into it.
Good luck!!
Last edited by hkehkaunited; 29th Mar 2009 at 03:35.
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Mass, don't worry mate, they will not see the end of the typhoon season, Stanley Ho running out of money la, Hainan got no money la, airports want their money......la.
Cutting pay by 20-30% will not save this multi million a week loss making ship, nor will the 7-12 days unpaid leave that suddenly appears on rosters.
Their days are numbered
Cutting pay by 20-30% will not save this multi million a week loss making ship, nor will the 7-12 days unpaid leave that suddenly appears on rosters.
Their days are numbered
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The emails listed below are the contact for SCMP and Korean Herald. Send them an introduction, tell your story and hope something is published. HKA and HKE have got away with all these contract changes and staff treatment without any media or public knowledge. The idea is not to hurt the companies, because jobs and families are dependant on them, but to expose them and let the world know how they go about business. 
Is Stanley aware that most of the decisions that are made by Wu and his incompetents are actually detrimental to HKE. They ruined everything here and now are screwing HKE. For example the efforts they made to encourage trained and experienced pilots to leave the companyHKE (go to China etc) only now to need to retrain HKA pilots to go to HKE, and probably employ other new guys in the near future at a massive cost to the share holder, in this case Stanley or whoever is the majority share holder besides Hainan. What a great idea, force the experienced pilots from a young developing airline, give them to a separate airline in china, and replace them with less experienced cheap labour, at huge expense in troubled economic times.
What about the brilliant decision to transfer 19 HKA flight attendants at HKE (on a higher pay scale than HKE's) when it was obvious they were not needed, then a few weeks later put all the cabin crew on forced leave without pay. You guys are brilliant, what a great idea.
Here is another good idea, piss all the pilots off so much they all have interviews at Shenzhen and Japan, Korean, Qatar and others, now pay the training captains less and employ inexperienced pilots with no local experience. Don’t be surprised if you find yourself short of crews in the near future. Without a doubt the most pathetic, incompetent and stupid managers I have ever experienced in my long lifetime, in ANY business.
Is Stanley aware? Please someone forward this to him. I really believe the shareholders have no idea how much money these guys have flushed down the drain, directly and indirectly.
So write your story and tell the world. And distribute these emails freely.
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
Sincerely I.P
Is Stanley aware that most of the decisions that are made by Wu and his incompetents are actually detrimental to HKE. They ruined everything here and now are screwing HKE. For example the efforts they made to encourage trained and experienced pilots to leave the companyHKE (go to China etc) only now to need to retrain HKA pilots to go to HKE, and probably employ other new guys in the near future at a massive cost to the share holder, in this case Stanley or whoever is the majority share holder besides Hainan. What a great idea, force the experienced pilots from a young developing airline, give them to a separate airline in china, and replace them with less experienced cheap labour, at huge expense in troubled economic times.
What about the brilliant decision to transfer 19 HKA flight attendants at HKE (on a higher pay scale than HKE's) when it was obvious they were not needed, then a few weeks later put all the cabin crew on forced leave without pay. You guys are brilliant, what a great idea.
Here is another good idea, piss all the pilots off so much they all have interviews at Shenzhen and Japan, Korean, Qatar and others, now pay the training captains less and employ inexperienced pilots with no local experience. Don’t be surprised if you find yourself short of crews in the near future. Without a doubt the most pathetic, incompetent and stupid managers I have ever experienced in my long lifetime, in ANY business.
Is Stanley aware? Please someone forward this to him. I really believe the shareholders have no idea how much money these guys have flushed down the drain, directly and indirectly.
So write your story and tell the world. And distribute these emails freely.
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
Sincerely I.P
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Racist remarks
"Can't stand us whiteys still pushing you around? Live with it...AVIATION IS NOT YOUR FORTE"
You are doing exactly what you are accusing them of. This give credence to their actions since you would do the same in their positions.
I have been in Asia many years and have made my home here and sadly there is truth in discriminatory practices against locals. Much of which is self serving i.e. we need to keep them out and keep them down to protect our interests.
I have flown with Singaporean pilots and many ranked up there with the best of us.
I feel that we bring true value to the work here in the differences in education and cultural outlook. With this value, there can be true partnership and lots less animosity.
2 cents worth...
You are doing exactly what you are accusing them of. This give credence to their actions since you would do the same in their positions.
I have been in Asia many years and have made my home here and sadly there is truth in discriminatory practices against locals. Much of which is self serving i.e. we need to keep them out and keep them down to protect our interests.
I have flown with Singaporean pilots and many ranked up there with the best of us.
I feel that we bring true value to the work here in the differences in education and cultural outlook. With this value, there can be true partnership and lots less animosity.
2 cents worth...
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Here we go with the old "racist" card again?????
Can't you come up with something else? You really are struggling to make an argument and it shows by resorting to the unjustified "your just racist" remarks.
Get a grip.
Can't you come up with something else? You really are struggling to make an argument and it shows by resorting to the unjustified "your just racist" remarks.
Get a grip.
"I have flown with Singaporean pilots and many ranked up there with the best of us"
Mate, good for you! However, if you were as unlucky as myself and had the privilege of sitting next to these dicks then you may understand. I say sitting next to and not fly with because they cannot fly.
Racism...Now lets not forget what happened in Feb 08 and on two more occasions later in 08, maybe you should re-read some earlier posts. I do not deem racism by identifying where the idiots at HKA are from.
Read the whole forum on HKA and you may become well versed on the matter.
Get your hand off it!
Mate, good for you!
However, if you were as unlucky as myself and had the privilege of sitting next to these dicks then you may understand. I say sitting next to and not fly with because they cannot fly. Racism...Now lets not forget what happened in Feb 08 and on two more occasions later in 08, maybe you should re-read some earlier posts. I do not deem racism by identifying where the idiots at HKA are from.
Read the whole forum on HKA and you may become well versed on the matter.
Get your hand off it!
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Things seem to be imploding with the bum chums at HKA.
1) HKA B#@ch TY just failed his PC + not being able to pass his CAAC exams.
2) Mr Security Manager just failed his command check.
1) HKA B#@ch TY just failed his PC + not being able to pass his CAAC exams.
2) Mr Security Manager just failed his command check.
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How could TY possibly fail? I mean, he was so much better than all the Captains........and was the first on the magical HKA list of wonderful F/O's to be upragded!
But wait......oh I see......all that action under Madam Wu's desk must have filled him with Singa juice and messed up his brain. How could anyone so clever as him fail????
That is good news....this will put him in his place.
But wait......oh I see......all that action under Madam Wu's desk must have filled him with Singa juice and messed up his brain. How could anyone so clever as him fail????
That is good news....this will put him in his place.
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None of the Singa swine clan who have four bars are worthy of it.
Especially RL, who boasts about his ability and demand that the flight attendants worship him.......he's the worst of the lot. He is the laughing stock of the Dragonair checkers after he attempted his TRE....and failed.....MISERABLY
And TY?.....Well, following well in their footsteps, with the right attitude (arrogant), right skill (thinks he's worthy of NASA, but doesn't know **** about the aircraft he flies).
Truth is coming out. Like I always say.....AVIATION IS NOT FOR THE SINGAWHORES OR TY. Take my advice, give it up before you kill yourselves.(95% of aviators in Hong Kong would prefer the latter).
Especially RL, who boasts about his ability and demand that the flight attendants worship him.......he's the worst of the lot. He is the laughing stock of the Dragonair checkers after he attempted his TRE....and failed.....MISERABLY
And TY?.....Well, following well in their footsteps, with the right attitude (arrogant), right skill (thinks he's worthy of NASA, but doesn't know **** about the aircraft he flies).
Truth is coming out. Like I always say.....AVIATION IS NOT FOR THE SINGAWHORES OR TY. Take my advice, give it up before you kill yourselves.(95% of aviators in Hong Kong would prefer the latter).