3 man long-haul. Pandora's box?
short flights long nights
Just a question....HKG PER for instance..what is the duty..and what crew do you operate with. (or SYD MEL...just wondering)
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We have so many discretion reports from commanders operating back to Hong Kong using the 2-hour discretion rule (from 13 hours to 15 hours). We presented these reports to the CAD as evidence for 3-crew ULH which will be accepted.
We like to thank every commander that used this clause to return our aircraft back to Hong Kong as you made this increase in the Flight Duty Period possible. This will require one less pilot on our ULH network, which will reduce our operating cost and increase My Bonus.
To all the pilots that use discretion to increase the Flight Duty Period to complete the pattern, again we thank you. We presented all of these reports to the CAD and the Flight Duty Periods for Normal Operations will be increasing.
Without all the helpful pilots this would not have been possible and we thank you all the way to OUR BONUS.
To My Bonus.
The Management
We like to thank every commander that used this clause to return our aircraft back to Hong Kong as you made this increase in the Flight Duty Period possible. This will require one less pilot on our ULH network, which will reduce our operating cost and increase My Bonus.
To all the pilots that use discretion to increase the Flight Duty Period to complete the pattern, again we thank you. We presented all of these reports to the CAD and the Flight Duty Periods for Normal Operations will be increasing.
Without all the helpful pilots this would not have been possible and we thank you all the way to OUR BONUS.
To My Bonus.
The Management
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Absolutely 4 Driver, you are spot on! Also a higher AOA membership would be absolutely vital in times like this.
A strong union is the only way forward!!
For some, this is too difficult to comprehend. It`s about time non CX/KA pilots are starting to realise this and join the AOA. Look at the Middle Eastern Carriers. They don’t have an union at all and their terms and conditions really deteriorated in the last year or so.
The clear winners are definitely the unions from Lufthansa, Air France and BALPA in the UK.
A strong union is the only way forward!!
For some, this is too difficult to comprehend. It`s about time non CX/KA pilots are starting to realise this and join the AOA. Look at the Middle Eastern Carriers. They don’t have an union at all and their terms and conditions really deteriorated in the last year or so.
The clear winners are definitely the unions from Lufthansa, Air France and BALPA in the UK.
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This will require one less pilot on our ULH network, which will reduce our operating cost and increase My Bonus.
3 Pilots will each be paid a credit factor of 1.14. This will put MORE crews into overtime,according to the DFO, 43mil has been paid in the past,that figure will most likely double!
LONGER lay-overs means MORE allowances and SUPERIOR hotels, if the euro gets stronger still, hear management cry..
As mentioned already, imagine the nightmare of having ALL 3 crew members on different time zones, one goes sick at an outport, pax in hotels for the night, newspaper headlines: "CX flight delayed by 15 hours due to lack of available pilots!"
With all the above and NO commanders discretion, possible diversions etc, let's see your precious little "bonus" being used for all those court cases after the 1st FATIGUE RELATED ACCIDENT
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You are one step behind there Ad.
The company has already applied for a variation to the longer overnights when using three crew for longhaul. Ask the AOA, they will confirm this. They are quite pissed that they are applying for a variation to a scheme that is not even implemented yet!
They are thinking ahead, unlike many of our pilots who bend over backwards to "complete the mission".
The company has already applied for a variation to the longer overnights when using three crew for longhaul. Ask the AOA, they will confirm this. They are quite pissed that they are applying for a variation to a scheme that is not even implemented yet!
They are thinking ahead, unlike many of our pilots who bend over backwards to "complete the mission".
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With all the above and NO commanders discretion, possible diversions etc, let's see your precious little "bonus" being used for all those court cases after the 1st FATIGUE RELATED ACCIDENT
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Virgin have been using 3 crew for LHR-HK all year now. The 4th man is only required due to acclimatization reasons between HK and SYD. (VA operate LHR-HK-SYD-HK-LHR) The crazy thing is that the 4th man positions out from LHR in the back and then operates the sector back to London. Very useful to have a spare guy positioning in the cabin when you have just flown a 12 hour night flight as 3 crew and are approaching HK in typhoon season! Not!
This year, when they operated a second LHR-HK service it was actually rostered with 3 crew all the way around the trip.....with min rest of 14 hrs between pulling on stand in HK from SYD and take off for a 13 hour flight back to London. And to top it off, because this made the total time away from base shorter we all lost a rostered day off after the trip! Of course, union said they would monitor fatigue along with the company. Funny how no amount of ASRs or CHIRP reports seemed to change a thing!
That should tell you all you need to know about how airlines value pilot fatigue against the cost of his operating hours! If a buck can be saved in pilot hours costs and hotac it is always worth reappraising the safety aspect and rewriting the ops manual!
It's a slippery slope guys and we are all sliding fast.
NZ
This year, when they operated a second LHR-HK service it was actually rostered with 3 crew all the way around the trip.....with min rest of 14 hrs between pulling on stand in HK from SYD and take off for a 13 hour flight back to London. And to top it off, because this made the total time away from base shorter we all lost a rostered day off after the trip! Of course, union said they would monitor fatigue along with the company. Funny how no amount of ASRs or CHIRP reports seemed to change a thing!
That should tell you all you need to know about how airlines value pilot fatigue against the cost of his operating hours! If a buck can be saved in pilot hours costs and hotac it is always worth reappraising the safety aspect and rewriting the ops manual!
It's a slippery slope guys and we are all sliding fast.
NZ
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The thing about all of this is that just because another airline does it, it doesn't make it right. Reducing crew complements on a longhaul operation does nothing other than reduce safety margins (oh, and reduce costs)and I guess that if the powers that be are happy with that then I will have to live with it. Yes I admit there has been the odd occasion where I have stepped off a daytime longhaul and not felt tired, but shouldn't that be the goal? Unfortunately it seems that we have to squeeze that lemon just a little more until we really are in coffin corner but of course safety is our number one priority so it has nothing to do with economics right? It is blatant, it is obvious and it is decided by people not experiencing it on a regular basis if at all.
