Make Cathay the place to stay
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Make Cathay the place to stay
Make CX a place you'd be happy to stay.
I've read both positive and negative things about CX.
Gentlemen, the question I have about all the negativity is why are there no efforts being taken to address this training/checks and hostile atmosphere at Cathay? Regardless of any past or present friction between management and the pilot group what can and should be done before this issue becomes cancerous for Cathay? I am concerned because as pilots at CX you fly one of the best aircrafts in world and face it none of you got furloughed during the SARS outbreak or 911 attacks.
Can and should the training atmosphere and line checks improve at CX? Certainly! Are there efforts to truly promote CRM in the cockpit. It doesn't impress me that a captain can know how many rivets there are on a 747 but sets a tone in the cockpit that has me wanting the trip to end asap.
Management cannot continue to ignore the state of dissatisfaction among the pilot ranks even if it is a minority. Negativity unfortunately spreads faster than positivity. It doesn' take much to get more people dissatisfied with a company if that's where the focus of discusion is like on this post and in the bars.
I must agree that if one no longer enjoys working at CX then efforts should be made to move on or else try to at least enjoy the fact that one gets to fly the nicest aircraft in the world and travel and get paid doing it.
This post acts as a filter for the hiring gurus at CX. It scares so many prospective applicants that usually only those really interested to work at CX or are still curious about working here go ahead with the interview process. Let me encourage all the CX wannabes to never let what you read here determin your desire and passion to be a professional aviator at Cathay. Most of what really determines your quality of life and your outlook in life has to come from you and your peace with God. Give CX a try if you get offered the job. If you got the job be thankful and bear with the unpleasantries as much as you enjoy putting on that uniform and flying that sleek aircraft.
Management please address this issue. Pilots make it a place YOU are proud to be a part of.
I've read both positive and negative things about CX.
Gentlemen, the question I have about all the negativity is why are there no efforts being taken to address this training/checks and hostile atmosphere at Cathay? Regardless of any past or present friction between management and the pilot group what can and should be done before this issue becomes cancerous for Cathay? I am concerned because as pilots at CX you fly one of the best aircrafts in world and face it none of you got furloughed during the SARS outbreak or 911 attacks.
Can and should the training atmosphere and line checks improve at CX? Certainly! Are there efforts to truly promote CRM in the cockpit. It doesn't impress me that a captain can know how many rivets there are on a 747 but sets a tone in the cockpit that has me wanting the trip to end asap.
Management cannot continue to ignore the state of dissatisfaction among the pilot ranks even if it is a minority. Negativity unfortunately spreads faster than positivity. It doesn' take much to get more people dissatisfied with a company if that's where the focus of discusion is like on this post and in the bars.
I must agree that if one no longer enjoys working at CX then efforts should be made to move on or else try to at least enjoy the fact that one gets to fly the nicest aircraft in the world and travel and get paid doing it.
This post acts as a filter for the hiring gurus at CX. It scares so many prospective applicants that usually only those really interested to work at CX or are still curious about working here go ahead with the interview process. Let me encourage all the CX wannabes to never let what you read here determin your desire and passion to be a professional aviator at Cathay. Most of what really determines your quality of life and your outlook in life has to come from you and your peace with God. Give CX a try if you get offered the job. If you got the job be thankful and bear with the unpleasantries as much as you enjoy putting on that uniform and flying that sleek aircraft.
Management please address this issue. Pilots make it a place YOU are proud to be a part of.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice one, hostile. The reverend BBQ has lost the plot completely.
All you need to survive at CX is tolerance.
You have to tolerate the overpaid pompous pr1cks in CX Management and the ever increasing number of self-serving supercilious t0ssers on the flight deck, coupled with arrogant and ignorant locals and sh1t filled air. If you can tolerate that the rest is a piece of p1ss....
All you need to survive at CX is tolerance.
You have to tolerate the overpaid pompous pr1cks in CX Management and the ever increasing number of self-serving supercilious t0ssers on the flight deck, coupled with arrogant and ignorant locals and sh1t filled air. If you can tolerate that the rest is a piece of p1ss....
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BarBQ
It's very hard to find a ''middle of the road'' pilot on this forum. So as you can imagine any further discussion will go down the ****ter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I'm sure there are some legit complaints like with any company, its very tiring listening to the same extreme views over and over again, usually from the same group of people. If you think you'll be happy somewhere else, take the appropriate steps and go enjoy your pot of gold.
It's very hard to find a ''middle of the road'' pilot on this forum. So as you can imagine any further discussion will go down the ****ter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I'm sure there are some legit complaints like with any company, its very tiring listening to the same extreme views over and over again, usually from the same group of people. If you think you'll be happy somewhere else, take the appropriate steps and go enjoy your pot of gold.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: LA
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Left Hand...
I think your comments re: Locals is pretty low dude. It's not down to race at all - It's down to the managements intimidatory mentality. One thing for sure that is positive about Cathay Pacific is that we are a multi-cultural airline and this works very well.
It does not matter where you are from or what skin colour you are that is NOT the reason why Cathay has serious flaws. You have chosen to work amongst 'the locals' in their home country and you should at least show some respect, instead you chose to lower yourself down to gutter level
Do you honestly feel people will listen to your complaints?
Is it so hard to air constructive criticism here?
I think your comments re: Locals is pretty low dude. It's not down to race at all - It's down to the managements intimidatory mentality. One thing for sure that is positive about Cathay Pacific is that we are a multi-cultural airline and this works very well.
It does not matter where you are from or what skin colour you are that is NOT the reason why Cathay has serious flaws. You have chosen to work amongst 'the locals' in their home country and you should at least show some respect, instead you chose to lower yourself down to gutter level
Do you honestly feel people will listen to your complaints?Is it so hard to air constructive criticism here?
Living with Tourettes
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: space
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree it is so hard to aire grievances. Every time you do the left wing brigade chop you off at the knees. I believe I've aired some serious issues. If people don't like my tone then bad luck. I still have some very valid points.
If people don't like my tone then bad luck.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow. Thanks for the post gentlemen.
I don't think that I've missed it completely. I have acknowledged that the problems exists at CX. I just want to know why are we wasting so much of our energy writing endless and I do mean endless complaints on this post while not actually moving towards a solution. I know management reads what is posted here so I am a least hoping that they see that. Often the people that complain aren't necessarily those that hate the company but those that care very much for the company and are trying to get the attention of management. I agree that a change now or soon is not possible. The dynamics however are changing. We will eventually have a changing of the guard. If the senior pilots/instructors have said that the quality of life at CX has deteriorated since they started many years ago have we then resigned to the fact that this process can eventually be reversed?
Did not mean to offend you FCUX. I do apologize. In retorspect it did sound pious on my part to make that statement.
Some change can be made that can show steps toward improving the pilots quality of life. Bidding for your roster for instance. Southwest airline pilots and flight attendants all rave about how easy it is to bid/trade and arrange their schedule even with very short notice. Ok. I'm dreaming. It will never happen here at CX and we should just give up hoping that management actually cares. But I offer here one suggestion. Anyone else up for positive suggestions that could maybe get the attention of management. Yes, yes... I know HKALPA has already tried. Don't give up.
Well. I guess its back to business as usual then unless changes are made either planned or unplanned.
TTFN.
I don't think that I've missed it completely. I have acknowledged that the problems exists at CX. I just want to know why are we wasting so much of our energy writing endless and I do mean endless complaints on this post while not actually moving towards a solution. I know management reads what is posted here so I am a least hoping that they see that. Often the people that complain aren't necessarily those that hate the company but those that care very much for the company and are trying to get the attention of management. I agree that a change now or soon is not possible. The dynamics however are changing. We will eventually have a changing of the guard. If the senior pilots/instructors have said that the quality of life at CX has deteriorated since they started many years ago have we then resigned to the fact that this process can eventually be reversed?
Did not mean to offend you FCUX. I do apologize. In retorspect it did sound pious on my part to make that statement.
Some change can be made that can show steps toward improving the pilots quality of life. Bidding for your roster for instance. Southwest airline pilots and flight attendants all rave about how easy it is to bid/trade and arrange their schedule even with very short notice. Ok. I'm dreaming. It will never happen here at CX and we should just give up hoping that management actually cares. But I offer here one suggestion. Anyone else up for positive suggestions that could maybe get the attention of management. Yes, yes... I know HKALPA has already tried. Don't give up.
Well. I guess its back to business as usual then unless changes are made either planned or unplanned.
TTFN.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Over the Moon
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm constantly amazed at the negative tone of so much that is written about Cathay, it was always an airline that was on my top 1 or 2 to join.
As an outsider I obviously cannot comment on the validity or otherwise of what is writtenbut I do have friends who work for Cathay and their comments are mixed.
By the way of encouragement Ezy was not seen as a good place to be as little as 18 months ago. While it is still far from perfect much has changed. Strong, effective union representation coupled with a change in management attitudes (new CEO ) has now made the company a decent outfit to work for. While not everyone may agree with this you can witness the distinct change of tone of what has been written on this forum over the last 2 years.
So things can change for the better. Every situation is unique but stong representation and unity among the pilots is crucial. If it reach's a tipping point were enough crews leave and the companies ability to train crews and operate its current fleet, let alone expand, is threatened (as happened at Ezy) then management will take note. If they don't feel vulnerable nothing will change.
Good luck, I realise much is different in HK re unions etc, you may need it.
As an outsider I obviously cannot comment on the validity or otherwise of what is writtenbut I do have friends who work for Cathay and their comments are mixed.
By the way of encouragement Ezy was not seen as a good place to be as little as 18 months ago. While it is still far from perfect much has changed. Strong, effective union representation coupled with a change in management attitudes (new CEO ) has now made the company a decent outfit to work for. While not everyone may agree with this you can witness the distinct change of tone of what has been written on this forum over the last 2 years.
So things can change for the better. Every situation is unique but stong representation and unity among the pilots is crucial. If it reach's a tipping point were enough crews leave and the companies ability to train crews and operate its current fleet, let alone expand, is threatened (as happened at Ezy) then management will take note. If they don't feel vulnerable nothing will change.
Good luck, I realise much is different in HK re unions etc, you may need it.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Breathing sand
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I'm constantly amazed at the negative tone of so much that is written about Cathay, it was always an airline that was on my top 1 or 2 to join."
I must agree, I had always considered cx as one of the primier employment opportunities but lately Im not sure what to think.
I have been offered an interview both at cx and big blue up north, and Im actually considering not attending cx (especially since it requires so much preperation). As wages increase at other heavy operators, cathay just doesn't have the draw it used to.
Its almost sad, I had such a grand vision of Cathay before I started reading the reality here
.
I must agree, I had always considered cx as one of the primier employment opportunities but lately Im not sure what to think.
I have been offered an interview both at cx and big blue up north, and Im actually considering not attending cx (especially since it requires so much preperation). As wages increase at other heavy operators, cathay just doesn't have the draw it used to.
Its almost sad, I had such a grand vision of Cathay before I started reading the reality here
.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Not over the Rockies anymore.
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its almost sad, I had such a grand vision of Cathay before I started reading the reality here
If you make career/life choices (not just about CX) based on what you read on these pilot chat forums, then you must be really naiive.
But hey, if you put so much credibility into this place, let me be the first to tell, no matter what anybody else may want you to believe, the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause ARE real!
If you make career/life choices (not just about CX) based on what you read on these pilot chat forums, then you must be really naiive.
But hey, if you put so much credibility into this place, let me be the first to tell, no matter what anybody else may want you to believe, the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause ARE real!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Breathing sand
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
act., you didn't need to tell me that, they both visit my home atleast once a year.
But, I do agree with your point. I would be a moron to base career decisions on a forum as such.
I have done thorough research on easily accessible information such as Pay, Benefits, route structure, etc., etc.
Yet, as an outsider the there are very few resources one can utilize to determine the true inner workings of an organization. Which I feel is just as important as the T&C. One of those resources would be to ask associates/friends who may know. I have done this and recieved a 50/50 pro for the company(1 current and 1 ex CX pilot). The other unfortunately, are venues such as this. I can't think of any other source, if you can I would appreciate your ensight.
But, I do agree with your point. I would be a moron to base career decisions on a forum as such.
I have done thorough research on easily accessible information such as Pay, Benefits, route structure, etc., etc.
Yet, as an outsider the there are very few resources one can utilize to determine the true inner workings of an organization. Which I feel is just as important as the T&C. One of those resources would be to ask associates/friends who may know. I have done this and recieved a 50/50 pro for the company(1 current and 1 ex CX pilot). The other unfortunately, are venues such as this. I can't think of any other source, if you can I would appreciate your ensight.
cf680...
Clearly you need to research as much as possible, from as many sources as possible. However, when you access a source of information such as this one, have a look at how many people are actually posting - on a very regular basis and see what they are writing.
We have over 2000 piolts in the CX community at the moment and only half a dozen or so contribute regularly with their grievances. Clearly they must be discounted. Consider the other 1950+ who are just happy to get on with life.
We are paid to turn up as rostered, fly as best we can on the day and then go home. That's it - nothing more, nothing less.
The check and training which goes on on the 2 twin fleets is exceptional. If you come here, determined to make the most of it, you'll probably have a great time. If you get tied up with the malcontents, then you won't.
'Nuff said
Clearly you need to research as much as possible, from as many sources as possible. However, when you access a source of information such as this one, have a look at how many people are actually posting - on a very regular basis and see what they are writing.
We have over 2000 piolts in the CX community at the moment and only half a dozen or so contribute regularly with their grievances. Clearly they must be discounted. Consider the other 1950+ who are just happy to get on with life.
We are paid to turn up as rostered, fly as best we can on the day and then go home. That's it - nothing more, nothing less.
The check and training which goes on on the 2 twin fleets is exceptional. If you come here, determined to make the most of it, you'll probably have a great time. If you get tied up with the malcontents, then you won't.
'Nuff said
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Juan Chai
Age: 44
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bla Bla Bla Bla!
Its not as bad as they say.
Training/checking: No they do not hold your hand and you are expected to show up prepared. Do your homework and you will be fine. After all, there is a certain expectation of a professional. Reference "The Line" as well.
CRM: If I have 1 year experience at CX, and the captain has 20 at CX, they I will probably listen to what he says. Unless of course he is hell bent on causing trouble, then I will intervene. If you need a hug after a tough flight, then mabey you should apply elsewhere.
The Line: 10% of every group is intolerable wankers! Be it 20 or 2000! Period! Cathay is no exception, nor is any other airline, nor is any other anything!
Do things need to change?
Every airline has thier "culture", CX is no exception. It is what it is. I would not come here with the attitude of "things need to change". With that said, yes, some things could change for the better, but I am not counting on it. It is manageable.
Bottom Line: I still look foreword to going to work. I get plenty of time off and the pay is good. Don't let the negativity of this forum get to you!
Its not as bad as they say.
Training/checking: No they do not hold your hand and you are expected to show up prepared. Do your homework and you will be fine. After all, there is a certain expectation of a professional. Reference "The Line" as well.
CRM: If I have 1 year experience at CX, and the captain has 20 at CX, they I will probably listen to what he says. Unless of course he is hell bent on causing trouble, then I will intervene. If you need a hug after a tough flight, then mabey you should apply elsewhere.
The Line: 10% of every group is intolerable wankers! Be it 20 or 2000! Period! Cathay is no exception, nor is any other airline, nor is any other anything!
Do things need to change?
Every airline has thier "culture", CX is no exception. It is what it is. I would not come here with the attitude of "things need to change". With that said, yes, some things could change for the better, but I am not counting on it. It is manageable.
Bottom Line: I still look foreword to going to work. I get plenty of time off and the pay is good. Don't let the negativity of this forum get to you!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Kook
Thanks Kook!
good post on reality....as I said a million times to ****** complainers I work with...work is work....suck it up. Enjoy the time off and cash. Look at your buddy at the golf course who has to carry his Blackberry and 2 cell phones and work 60 hours a week and bellyaches all day about returning to the "hell" office on Mon. Grow some balls you complainers and find something you should be doing....like complaining about the pay on your new forum for employees at Wall Mart. You know what at JA is?
good post on reality....as I said a million times to ****** complainers I work with...work is work....suck it up. Enjoy the time off and cash. Look at your buddy at the golf course who has to carry his Blackberry and 2 cell phones and work 60 hours a week and bellyaches all day about returning to the "hell" office on Mon. Grow some balls you complainers and find something you should be doing....like complaining about the pay on your new forum for employees at Wall Mart.
You know what at JA is?
Where the hell is Hostile 23
For Gawd's sake I go away for a couple of days and was looking forward to getting back to read more mindless drivel from that 
pratt Hostile 23 and he's gone, here no more, departed the fix. 
Bugger... who's next in line?
pratt Hostile 23 and he's gone, here no more, departed the fix. Bugger... who's next in line?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BNE
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BarBQ
Old chap. While your intentions are well meaning, I am afraid reality is another matter. Yes, there are many whiners on this site; some over the top, some quite level headed. But unfortunately the fact remains that this forum is totally useless in getting anything done.
Yes, management (and their advisers - consultancy firms) do read this forum. It serves as an ad-hoc feedback service for them. But they not only take no notice of this stuff from a change point of view, but also revell in the infighting it produces. It's not just Cathay that does this. Most major airlines do this. Apart from the negotiation table (and not necessarily even there), this is not a forum to try and reason with what sounds like a (typically) intransigent management.
Reality Check: Tick
Yes, management (and their advisers - consultancy firms) do read this forum. It serves as an ad-hoc feedback service for them. But they not only take no notice of this stuff from a change point of view, but also revell in the infighting it produces. It's not just Cathay that does this. Most major airlines do this. Apart from the negotiation table (and not necessarily even there), this is not a forum to try and reason with what sounds like a (typically) intransigent management.
Reality Check: Tick
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
aviatorguy.
Thanks for your feedback. Your are right in all that you said.
Frankly, the point I was trying to make is that we cannot expect Cathay to determine our level of contentment/happiness as pilots.
We certainly need to understand the feelings of resentment that some 49 plus pilots felt when they were unjustly sacked back in the 2001. I think "hostile 23" maybe one of those. WE could not imagine the amount of grief and immediate hardships these pilots and their families went through. Still steps must be made to move forward in ones career and make the best of it.
I did not expect Santa to bring me a present at Christmas just as much as FCUX should not believe that Cathay needs to determine his happiness as a pilot.
So how does one make it a place to stay? If changing the status quo is an impossible extremist view (as I have been accused of having) then change one other variable...your attitude (not directed at you aviatorguy). And this is not tolerance.
Thanks for your feedback. Your are right in all that you said.
Frankly, the point I was trying to make is that we cannot expect Cathay to determine our level of contentment/happiness as pilots.
We certainly need to understand the feelings of resentment that some 49 plus pilots felt when they were unjustly sacked back in the 2001. I think "hostile 23" maybe one of those. WE could not imagine the amount of grief and immediate hardships these pilots and their families went through. Still steps must be made to move forward in ones career and make the best of it.
I did not expect Santa to bring me a present at Christmas just as much as FCUX should not believe that Cathay needs to determine his happiness as a pilot.
So how does one make it a place to stay? If changing the status quo is an impossible extremist view (as I have been accused of having) then change one other variable...your attitude (not directed at you aviatorguy). And this is not tolerance.
Last edited by BarBQ; 5th Jun 2007 at 14:40.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 'twinjet' fleets are leading a charmed life as we speak, much as the -400 used to. From talking to an AOA bigwig recently, (despite the warning that if he told me the real truth he would have to kill me), I understand that there is going to be quite an uplift in hours expected in return for a reasonable but not ground busting pay increae + age 65.......THEN we'll see how happy the twinjetters are with 8 days off a month.....