Independent Financial Adviser
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Fragrant Harbour
Age: 49
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i made cash via HK property i was lucky enough to buy during SARs, ask how many cathay pilots have been ripped of by "proffesional financial advisors" you will get the point, i have already fallen for that trap, and by the way if you cant answer the question then get off this thread, if i wanted jealouse snide remarks i would have asked for it.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if i wanted jealouse snide remarks i would have asked for it.
ask how many cathay pilots have been ripped off by "proffesional financial advisors"
The point is there are plenty of bad financial advisors, and some good ones, this was the whole point of this thread...trying to find contacts to the good ones.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Asia's Fine City
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Calm down ladies.
To stick to the thread and to add to FlexibleResponse's input (which IMO is VG) I hope that the following (posted on a similar topic a few years ago) helps those reading this thread.
Would be interesting to hear answers to FlyingKiwi's question.
Of course life is not a dress rehearsal so an alternative is to go down to Wanchai eat drink and be merry for tomorrow........etc
Financial Education
You need financial education. This is not taught in schools. You can teach yourself to be financially smarter and recognise these types of legal "investment" scams by so called IFAs. Nobody has your financial interests at heart better than yourself. No one. Always remember this.
There are only four things ("asset classes" they are called) that you can invest in. Every "investment" product that you read about will fall into one of these or will be a derivative. Sometimes it is not clear, therefore this should raise alarm bells and look for hidden costs that will eat into the rate of return.
1. Cash or cash like products
2. Equities
3. Property
4. Commodities
Understand, assess and compare each investment opportunity against these categories:
1. Rate of return
2. Capital Gurantee
3. Liquidity
4. Ability to leverage
5. Any tax advantages
6. Costs of the product
What you need first and foremost is financial education to really understand what all of this and other terms in financial/investment language means. You are not taught any of this in school and the industry makes you feel ignorant. It preys on this ignorance to part you from you hard earned. Therefore you need to teach yourself to recognise when you are being sold a line. The upside is that you can teach yourself to be financially smarter very easily.
A good start is to read Robert Kiyosaki "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" book and then his series. He has a game also. It is very good for educational puposes. It will teach you a lot about how investment and money works. It is actually fun once you start to learn about how the industry works as it opens up all the b/s you see in the market and in the high st banks. It brings clarity. Don't worry too much about the property related stuff given the current market, but it will teach you to recognise asset class volatility and cycles. One of his best lines of advice is this - and it is the hardest to find:
- Find an expert who can give you good advice, NOT a salesperson.
Others include
- The high street banks are not your freinds. They are there to screw you.
- Build income generating assets and then build pipelines between them. Increase the size of the pipelines and velocity of the money that goes between. Don't let money stay stagnant and not earning.
- Once the sum of your portfolio and passive income exceeds your total expenses you can quit the rat race.
- Once you make passive and portfolio income a part of your life, your life will change.
- People fail financially for two reasons; they fail to manage their money and they fail to leverage their money. You have to understand how to employ power leverage (the banks money), safely.
One you start to learn and can cut throught the cr@p and educate yourself the whole industry becomes very illuminating and the common tricks of the trade become apparent.
Hope this helps. Whether you like the author or not is not the point. This is just a pointer for you as it worked for me. Educate yourself and your kids. Good look with your ongoing financial education. It's fun. At the very least it will stop you falling prey of the "financial advisors".
K
To stick to the thread and to add to FlexibleResponse's input (which IMO is VG) I hope that the following (posted on a similar topic a few years ago) helps those reading this thread.
Would be interesting to hear answers to FlyingKiwi's question.
Of course life is not a dress rehearsal so an alternative is to go down to Wanchai eat drink and be merry for tomorrow........etc
Financial Education
You need financial education. This is not taught in schools. You can teach yourself to be financially smarter and recognise these types of legal "investment" scams by so called IFAs. Nobody has your financial interests at heart better than yourself. No one. Always remember this.
There are only four things ("asset classes" they are called) that you can invest in. Every "investment" product that you read about will fall into one of these or will be a derivative. Sometimes it is not clear, therefore this should raise alarm bells and look for hidden costs that will eat into the rate of return.
1. Cash or cash like products
2. Equities
3. Property
4. Commodities
Understand, assess and compare each investment opportunity against these categories:
1. Rate of return
2. Capital Gurantee
3. Liquidity
4. Ability to leverage
5. Any tax advantages
6. Costs of the product
What you need first and foremost is financial education to really understand what all of this and other terms in financial/investment language means. You are not taught any of this in school and the industry makes you feel ignorant. It preys on this ignorance to part you from you hard earned. Therefore you need to teach yourself to recognise when you are being sold a line. The upside is that you can teach yourself to be financially smarter very easily.
A good start is to read Robert Kiyosaki "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" book and then his series. He has a game also. It is very good for educational puposes. It will teach you a lot about how investment and money works. It is actually fun once you start to learn about how the industry works as it opens up all the b/s you see in the market and in the high st banks. It brings clarity. Don't worry too much about the property related stuff given the current market, but it will teach you to recognise asset class volatility and cycles. One of his best lines of advice is this - and it is the hardest to find:
- Find an expert who can give you good advice, NOT a salesperson.
Others include
- The high street banks are not your freinds. They are there to screw you.
- Build income generating assets and then build pipelines between them. Increase the size of the pipelines and velocity of the money that goes between. Don't let money stay stagnant and not earning.
- Once the sum of your portfolio and passive income exceeds your total expenses you can quit the rat race.
- Once you make passive and portfolio income a part of your life, your life will change.
- People fail financially for two reasons; they fail to manage their money and they fail to leverage their money. You have to understand how to employ power leverage (the banks money), safely.
One you start to learn and can cut throught the cr@p and educate yourself the whole industry becomes very illuminating and the common tricks of the trade become apparent.
Hope this helps. Whether you like the author or not is not the point. This is just a pointer for you as it worked for me. Educate yourself and your kids. Good look with your ongoing financial education. It's fun. At the very least it will stop you falling prey of the "financial advisors".
K
flyingkiwi said,
Hi how about an update of your portfolio, where to from here? To me it seems at a cross road, i have significant csh sitting doing nothing but am fearfull the market has over rebounded, any ideas?
Hi how about an update of your portfolio, where to from here? To me it seems at a cross road, i have significant csh sitting doing nothing but am fearfull the market has over rebounded, any ideas?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Fragrant Harbour
Age: 49
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks Kluge and Flexible response
Finnally proper answers, its much appreciated, i am sure theres a few more out there with an interest in others thoughts on the current market and possible options.
Finnally proper answers, its much appreciated, i am sure theres a few more out there with an interest in others thoughts on the current market and possible options.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: uk
Age: 58
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DeVere and Partners!
I think I miight be a bit late for this post. Have been doing some research on working for this company as I have an interview and some bad posts are popping up all over the place.
I had a look at this website which might answer some of the questions being talked about on here. It put me straight! Offshore- Exposed! As for me I think I'll skip being an offshore IFA....
I had a look at this website which might answer some of the questions being talked about on here. It put me straight! Offshore- Exposed! As for me I think I'll skip being an offshore IFA....
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dubai
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a buddy of mine recently said, I've spent 90% of my income of the last 60 years on wine, women and fast cars. The other 10% I've wasted.
On a more serious note, I've a close friend who I've known for many years who started an investment firm with another very smart and successful friend of his mid last year. I was one of the first to invest with them and I've been very happy with the returns, the service and importantly the transparency since. These guys put $5m each of their own money into it, so unlike most people giving financial advice or investment services, they actually have their own money at stake. It makes a hell of a difference, I reckon. There's plenty of people willing to charge for advice who aren't going to suffer any loss if what they recommend bombs. His advice over the years has not simply made me money, but saved me money. The best example being convincing me to convince my then fund manager to sell nearly all my shareholdings just before the market collapsed. Another more was walking me through getting my Dubai apartment hedged on the currency risk just before the AUD took off (thus far saving me $690k if I wanted to sell it and convert it back to my retirement/home currency). That's real money and genuinely good advice.
When you invest, you actually do so under your own/company name so your money is always and only available to you. They invest it using a limited power of attorney (they cant withdraw or deposit), and best of all there is absolutely no performance fees unless they make profits for you. You can also add or withdraw your funds whenever you like and see exactly where your funds are being invested, live!
The billions of dollars lost by people hoodwinked into investing in Bernard Madoff's pontzi scheme were all the more a surprise because his company was regulated by the US Securities and Exchange Commission and had been functioning for over 30 years. The lessons to be learnt from that are:
- Just because an organisation has been around for years doesn't necessarily mean it's legitimate
- Do your own due diligence, and if you do choose to abdicate your own investigation to someone else (eg. word of mouth) as many of us sometimes have to given so many of our waking hours are spent in the air, then mitigate some of the risk by making sure where possible that you're able to see your funds at all times and able to remove them at a moments notice. Not tied up behind a wall of so-called professional privilege where all you get is a monthly/quarterly update and dont get to see where it gets invested.
If anyone is interested, I'd recommend you take look at this website.
www.npcinvest.com/members
On a more serious note, I've a close friend who I've known for many years who started an investment firm with another very smart and successful friend of his mid last year. I was one of the first to invest with them and I've been very happy with the returns, the service and importantly the transparency since. These guys put $5m each of their own money into it, so unlike most people giving financial advice or investment services, they actually have their own money at stake. It makes a hell of a difference, I reckon. There's plenty of people willing to charge for advice who aren't going to suffer any loss if what they recommend bombs. His advice over the years has not simply made me money, but saved me money. The best example being convincing me to convince my then fund manager to sell nearly all my shareholdings just before the market collapsed. Another more was walking me through getting my Dubai apartment hedged on the currency risk just before the AUD took off (thus far saving me $690k if I wanted to sell it and convert it back to my retirement/home currency). That's real money and genuinely good advice.
When you invest, you actually do so under your own/company name so your money is always and only available to you. They invest it using a limited power of attorney (they cant withdraw or deposit), and best of all there is absolutely no performance fees unless they make profits for you. You can also add or withdraw your funds whenever you like and see exactly where your funds are being invested, live!
The billions of dollars lost by people hoodwinked into investing in Bernard Madoff's pontzi scheme were all the more a surprise because his company was regulated by the US Securities and Exchange Commission and had been functioning for over 30 years. The lessons to be learnt from that are:
- Just because an organisation has been around for years doesn't necessarily mean it's legitimate
- Do your own due diligence, and if you do choose to abdicate your own investigation to someone else (eg. word of mouth) as many of us sometimes have to given so many of our waking hours are spent in the air, then mitigate some of the risk by making sure where possible that you're able to see your funds at all times and able to remove them at a moments notice. Not tied up behind a wall of so-called professional privilege where all you get is a monthly/quarterly update and dont get to see where it gets invested.
If anyone is interested, I'd recommend you take look at this website.
www.npcinvest.com/members
Last edited by LongExcursion; 11th Apr 2010 at 07:29.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 56
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
De Vere & Partners
If you have purchased a product through this company can I urge you to check the advise you were given by them with the PRODUCT PROVIDER.
In particluler please:
Check the Terms & Conditions: Get a FULL copy from the provider.
Check what fees you will be paying, how much they will be and over what period of time.
Check you have been given ALL the documentation provided by the product provider.
I didnt and was misinformed and misled.
Once they have your money they dont reply to your concerns.
In particluler please:
Check the Terms & Conditions: Get a FULL copy from the provider.
Check what fees you will be paying, how much they will be and over what period of time.
Check you have been given ALL the documentation provided by the product provider.
I didnt and was misinformed and misled.
Once they have your money they dont reply to your concerns.
If anyone is interested, I'd recommend you take look at this website.
Nussbaumer Pearce Capital - Newsletters
Nussbaumer Pearce Capital - Newsletters
:
Has anybody heard of Abbey
Has anybody heard of Abbey
No, but they are likely to be the same as every other Financial adviser company.
1. They talk you into giving them control of your money.
2. They gamble with your money in their favourite product.
3. They make a gain for you and they take an Adviser fee plus a cut of the total amount you have invested, plus a trailing commission from the product manager.
4. Or, they make a loss and they take an Adviser fee plus a cut of the total amount you have invested, plus a trailing commission from the product manager.
It's all quite simple really:
1. You take all the risk and risk losing all your money.
2. They can't lose as they get paid regardless of whether or not they win for you or lose all your your money.
FlexibleResponse
1. Buy shares directly and hold the title directly yourself (ie, not through some investment fund or whatever).
2. Only buy investment grade blue chip shares.
3. Never lend your shares or title to your shares to anyone.
4. Never borrow to buy shares.
1. Buy shares directly and hold the title directly yourself (ie, not through some investment fund or whatever).
2. Only buy investment grade blue chip shares.
3. Never lend your shares or title to your shares to anyone.
4. Never borrow to buy shares.
You must learn about investing and become your own adviser...or you will be bled to death of any wealth that you accumulate by the blood suckers...you have been warned.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Asia's Fine City
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely - spot on.
De Vere & Partners - I remember this lot a couple of years ago inviting me and Memsahib for a very nice evening at the races.
We had lots of fun thank you very much. Excellent nibbles and champoo. Got quite tiddly.
However;
If a company cannot answer basic questions regarding their product on
- liquidity
-safety of principle
-rate of return
-any tax advantages
....but steer you into a diatribe of "in 10 yrs time, the mkts traditionally increase blah, blah, we just charge you every time you make a transaction, deposit monthly payments and watch it grow" bolleaux then smile, nod, drink copius amounts of their champoo and tell them you'll get back to them.
It's the only return you'll ever get. At least they've invested in you up front and you had a good time. But learn and understand why not signing up for these things is a good thing.
It is nice to be invited to these things though and interesting to see similar faces doing the rounds between companies. Champoo anyone ?
De Vere & Partners - I remember this lot a couple of years ago inviting me and Memsahib for a very nice evening at the races.
We had lots of fun thank you very much. Excellent nibbles and champoo.
Got quite tiddly.However;
If a company cannot answer basic questions regarding their product on
- liquidity
-safety of principle
-rate of return
-any tax advantages
....but steer you into a diatribe of "in 10 yrs time, the mkts traditionally increase blah, blah, we just charge you every time you make a transaction, deposit monthly payments and watch it grow" bolleaux then smile, nod, drink copius amounts of their champoo and tell them you'll get back to them.
It's the only return you'll ever get. At least they've invested in you up front and you had a good time. But learn and understand why not signing up for these things is a good thing.
It is nice to be invited to these things though and interesting to see similar faces doing the rounds between companies. Champoo anyone ?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Turks and Caicos
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IFA Issue
I have found this thread via google and wondered if anyone can actually recommend any worthy professional ifa firm? I am a qualified expat accountant and due to the number of 'sharks' I had call me, decided to look into qualifying as an IFA. I have taken the exams but would like to have gained experience through a reputable firm but I simply cannot seem to find any worth talking to. Unless anyone can recommend a good firm I agree totally with the replys on this thread that you are your own best advisor.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Asia's Fine City
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a reputable firm
Their job first and foremost is to make money from you not for you.
Some of them can be good investments. Just be careful if you are considering purchasing their products.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: uk
Age: 58
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"you know who"
I just don’t get it!
Everyone knows these guys are salesmen dressed as IFAs obtaining outrageous commissions. After all, they actually advertise that fact: just look at the requirements on there own website for IFAs – (no financial background required as you will be sent on a week’s course!). A week’s course!!!!
Who do I feel more sorry for: the poor clients being given investment advice on there hard earned saving by an ex carpet salesman masquerading as an IFA or the gullible commission only fools who spend an equal fortune being sold a idiotic dream job of making riches ripping off those poor clients!
Facts: kicked out of France, Singapore, Panama (you gotta be hard-pushed to get kicked out of Panama!), Brazil. Given warnings in Germany, Switzerland, Russia, Oman and probably others, yet they still manage to make a trade across the world.
Eh!
Everyone knows these guys are salesmen dressed as IFAs obtaining outrageous commissions. After all, they actually advertise that fact: just look at the requirements on there own website for IFAs – (no financial background required as you will be sent on a week’s course!). A week’s course!!!!
Who do I feel more sorry for: the poor clients being given investment advice on there hard earned saving by an ex carpet salesman masquerading as an IFA or the gullible commission only fools who spend an equal fortune being sold a idiotic dream job of making riches ripping off those poor clients!
Facts: kicked out of France, Singapore, Panama (you gotta be hard-pushed to get kicked out of Panama!), Brazil. Given warnings in Germany, Switzerland, Russia, Oman and probably others, yet they still manage to make a trade across the world.
Eh!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dubai
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't miss the wood for the trees. Refer post of 7th April. About to close another month and these NPC champions have added another 4.7% to my net worth while I've been working for a living. Talk is cheap. Results are what matter. If I thought I could do it myself better, I'd have switched careers.
I have been putting off the valuation of the portfolio because of a few factors mostly to do with my time!
But, I will do a quick and nasty estimate.
Of the original 10 companies, three have gone. Babcock and Brown (BNB) was an investment bank that overextended themselves in the good times and were wiped out by the financial fiasco. We lost all our money on that one.
Babcock and Brown Infrastructure was also immersed in or at least tainted with its parents problems and so when BBI eventually re-invented themselves, we ended up with one new share for every 50 old shares that we held. I consider this to be a complete write-off of our money as far as our portfolio goes.
Queensland Gas (QGC) was taken over by BG Group and we were paid $31,081 for our original $10,000 worth of QGC shares. This amount is cash which probably earned interest of say a conservative $1000.
Our active portfolio of the 7 remaining shares was valued at 71,410 on Friday 30 Apr 2010.
I don't have the time to work out the dividends we received, but lets say over the three plus years we got a conservative $7000.
Portfolio at 30 April 2010
1. 71,410 Shares
2. 31,081 cash
3. 1,000 interest
4. 7,000 dividends
Total = $110,491
It is not a lot for over three years of investing, but the world financial fiasco was very cruel and we are still ahead.
Also, we did not allow for intelligent reassessment of the companies in which we first invested. That is, when BNB started to look shaky, I sold my personal shares of both BNB and BBI to recover some of my capital. I also sold my personal SUN shares when I decided that the management team were not performing well enough. I sold my bank shares (ANZ) during the world financial crisis when it wasn't yet clear who may have had exposure (early on, even the Oz banks were unable to work out their exposure). I immediately reinvested the proceeds of all of these sales into resource companies (as I did with huge winnings from the QGC takeover). So my personal portfolio was able to come back on the upswing in very healthy condition indeed.
But for the PPRune portfolio, out of curiosity, I decided to let nature take its course and see where the "do nothing" strategy took us.
In essence since we first invested, we went straight into the worst crisis in our lives and after three years we have emerged with about 10% more than we started with...
...so just imagine where we would be in more normal times!
But, I will do a quick and nasty estimate.
Of the original 10 companies, three have gone. Babcock and Brown (BNB) was an investment bank that overextended themselves in the good times and were wiped out by the financial fiasco. We lost all our money on that one.
Babcock and Brown Infrastructure was also immersed in or at least tainted with its parents problems and so when BBI eventually re-invented themselves, we ended up with one new share for every 50 old shares that we held. I consider this to be a complete write-off of our money as far as our portfolio goes.
Queensland Gas (QGC) was taken over by BG Group and we were paid $31,081 for our original $10,000 worth of QGC shares. This amount is cash which probably earned interest of say a conservative $1000.
Our active portfolio of the 7 remaining shares was valued at 71,410 on Friday 30 Apr 2010.
I don't have the time to work out the dividends we received, but lets say over the three plus years we got a conservative $7000.
Portfolio at 30 April 2010
1. 71,410 Shares
2. 31,081 cash
3. 1,000 interest
4. 7,000 dividends
Total = $110,491
It is not a lot for over three years of investing, but the world financial fiasco was very cruel and we are still ahead.
Also, we did not allow for intelligent reassessment of the companies in which we first invested. That is, when BNB started to look shaky, I sold my personal shares of both BNB and BBI to recover some of my capital. I also sold my personal SUN shares when I decided that the management team were not performing well enough. I sold my bank shares (ANZ) during the world financial crisis when it wasn't yet clear who may have had exposure (early on, even the Oz banks were unable to work out their exposure). I immediately reinvested the proceeds of all of these sales into resource companies (as I did with huge winnings from the QGC takeover). So my personal portfolio was able to come back on the upswing in very healthy condition indeed.
But for the PPRune portfolio, out of curiosity, I decided to let nature take its course and see where the "do nothing" strategy took us.
In essence since we first invested, we went straight into the worst crisis in our lives and after three years we have emerged with about 10% more than we started with...
...so just imagine where we would be in more normal times!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dubai
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These are the times when that seemingly illusive "good" financial advice differentiates itself from the rest. A kiss, a welcomed cup of coffee and an enjoyable breakfast free of ulcers and concern about what the last 24 hours financial "Armageddon" means to me. The boys at NPC didn't call to tell me woes of meltdown. The call I did get was to re-assure me that they had hedged my AUD/USD mortgage at 0.9300 (telling me it was now 0.8800 and saving me $10000 on the potential exchange loss). That my Dubai property hedge had been removed at the same time on the expectation of a medium strengthening of the USD, crystalizing a profit of 120% on the face value, rather than a notional decline of 55% in the last 12 months on the wholesale collapse in the capital values of our local real estate market). And that my investment account was up US$170k in 3 days after they'd finally been rewarded for their expectations on what Greeces turmoil meant for the EUR and "risk based" currencies. All then validated by me going into my transparent, online account and seeing the numbers in black n white.
In amongst all of that, I actually get to feel the buzz of trading and a proxy sense of achievement.
This thread began with someone in search of good advice. It's when markets collapse and people panic that the cream rises to the surface.
Good luck punting your own money. I'm guessing the above self-managed portfolio looks even less impressive again. And that ignores the opportunity costs and the cost of capital.
In amongst all of that, I actually get to feel the buzz of trading and a proxy sense of achievement.
This thread began with someone in search of good advice. It's when markets collapse and people panic that the cream rises to the surface.
Good luck punting your own money. I'm guessing the above self-managed portfolio looks even less impressive again. And that ignores the opportunity costs and the cost of capital.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Asia's Fine City
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LongExcursion - sounds interesting. Tell us more about this 'FX as an asset class'. Interesting website.
- What are the costs for this performance based service?
- Is there ANY limitation on your liquidity - can you withdraw the whole amount including your returns at any time without paying any penalty costs ?
- As an asset class will a bank or other lending facility allow you to use the funds you have allocated with NPC as collateral ?
- What are the costs for this performance based service?
- Is there ANY limitation on your liquidity - can you withdraw the whole amount including your returns at any time without paying any penalty costs ?
- As an asset class will a bank or other lending facility allow you to use the funds you have allocated with NPC as collateral ?
Last edited by kluge; 12th May 2010 at 07:00. Reason: typo