Spektor

Hi, guys and gals,

Being Cathay Pacific Wannabes, we are trying to secure what we perceive to be the greatest airline job in the World. As such, we absolutely don't want to give Cathay Pacific any reason what so ever not to hire us, but unless everyone is a superman(woman), I am sure everyone is sweating something. The greatest fear is the fear of the unknown (David Davies pointed that out quite correctly in "Handling the Big Jets"), so we cannot help but wonder what that "something" would do to the progress of our applications, how would it affect our chances, does it have the potential to become a single disqualifying factor?

This is not an invitation for everyone to break out their "closet skeletons" and to start waving them, I know I don't want to do that myself (even though it is an unanimous forum), but I do believe that a general discussion of the subject could be beneficial to everyone by shedding some light on the unknown, by removing some of the fear, because lets face it, very often our fears are unwarranted in the first place. On the other hand we may be ignorant and not pay due attention to things which will hang us because we never saw them coming.

So much for the general, lets get down to specifics. First of all I would like to get rid of the obvious, things like

- Criminal history
- Severe medical deficiencies
- Drug abuse
- Accidents and incidents on the record (this is a bit of a gray area, but I think if you are found guilty of causing one, you will get binned pretty quickly)
- Lack of integrity (lying about important things on the application or during interviews)
- Insufficient flying skills (it is no secret that for some people 5000 hours means flying 50 hours 100 times)
- Utterly unpleasant personality (this one is probably open for debate, but I just mean someone who is a real prick/bitch and can't help but shine his/her true colors every time they open their mouths)

The rest I am affraid constitutes a big grey area (for me at least - hence this topic). It seems there are quite a few underwater rocks in the Hong Kong harbor, would be nice to have some sort of chart to help navigate the dark waters. So I am asking everyone with a minute and a will to share, how does Cathay Pacific pick their candidates? What are the nonos, semi-OKs and OKs? Any input from anyone is very welcome, but especially from people like Silberfuchs, Captain Underpants, 404Titan - you are the insiders, you know what you are talking about.

- What is the ideal age/experience level combination for a candidate?

- Is it true that preference is given to naionals of countries where Cathay has crew bases?

- Is preference given to men over women candidates?

- What is the best way to back up your motivation for moving to Hong Kong, especially if you have never been there? After reading some of the posts I believe there are wrong things to say on the matter. What are they?

- What is Cathay's policy on smokers (is there one?), will an affirmative answer to that question on the medical questionnaire be disqualifying?

- On the medical requirements, several people mentioned them, but didn't reveal what they are - things like blood pressure values, Body Mass Index, is it OK to have average numbers or do they lean towards an athlete/fighter pilot type numbers?

- Is there an effort to determine the level of fitness during a medical? I mean things like stength, endurance etc.?

- What is the maximum/minimum height for a candidate?

- What is the Selection Board take on a candidate being Pro-Union, Anti-Union, in the middle?

- Is it OK to be religious/atheist? Does the company have any preferences as to the religious background?

- Is it OK to be single, married, divorced? Which is better?

- What is the MINIMUM weekly/monthly/yearly alcohol intake to be looked upon favorably?

These are all the questions I can think of at the moment. I am sure many of us could add a few more. I don't expect any one person to answer all of them, but maybe together, bit by bit, we just might be able to put together something of a profile. A profile for a candidate with a decent shot - we all really want to know if we have one.

Thanks to everyone in advance for reading the whole thing - I know its pretty lengthy, and, of course for replying! Lets navigate around these underwater rocks, and if we can't, lets reinforce our hulls and not sink!

Spektor.

s2559536

Yea I agree with that

Also, I know this will sound really stupid
however, I have smoked pot in my life but not anymore, I wasn't abusing it or anything it was just a social smoke, trying out.. will the medical people in Cathay be able to tell whether I have done it or not through the medical examinations?

I really regret of doing it

Some advice would be great

s2559536.

CFLL

Sorry that i am a CX wannabes without flying experience but i still would like to take part into the discussion

I have similiar concern as s2559536.

I know there is no such a regulation that a pilot couldn't smoke. But i somehow believe that those medical people can "detect" your past smoking record by some advance test.

To tackle this, i decided to quite smoking before applying for CPP, maybe this is the only thing a "smoking wannabe"can do.

CFLL

Spektor

s2559536,

I really don't know much on what you are asking, but in the "Flight Deck Forums" under "Health and Medical" there is a post called "Smoking", which is a 2 page discussion on just that topic - check it out. I believe you will find a comprehensive answer there, including the half-life figures for different drugs, how long it stays in your blood, hair and nails etc.

Good luck,
Spektor.

Altyre

Hi Spektor

the end of your post is very interesting and I will give you some inside info, as you requested. You say by exchanging information, bit by bit, you might be able to create the profile of the perfect candidate. There are a few people in the U.S. and in Canada who seem to know what these bits are, and for a generous contribution, are ready to share their knowledge on how you will succeed at a Cathay Pacific interview.

I was having a drink with the Airbus fleet manager at the cocktail party of my interview. He told me that guys who had prepared their interview by attending one of these preparation course were so transparent he could tell after just a couple of questions.
So your best shot is really to be yourself. One reason would be that if you put on a show for your interview, you're gonna have to keep it on for the next 30 years.
I understand that you're mostly asking whether certain facts are more important than others, such as your health or marital status but you've made enough research to know what the interview is like. If you do a good sim, have a good technical knowledge and are a nice guy, I don't think it really matters if you're married or not, catholic or jewish, tall or small. And anyway, you're not really thinking of getting married or divorcing just because it might give you a better chance here, are you?

Good luck to you, I think Silberfuchs will just tell you to read "Handling the big jets" some more

Spektor

Altyre,

Thank you for the great reply! I take it you didn't attend the prep course? Neither have I, not yet anyway. Did the Airbus Manager say that he would rather people didn't attend these courses? Also, HOW MANY drinks did you have with him?

My original post is not so much to determine things that are more important than others - you summed up the really important ones pretty good in "do a good sim, have a good technical knowledge and be a nice guy". I guess I am just curious about how the choise is made BETWEEN these that did a good sim, had good technical knowledge and are nice guys. I understand that it isn't always possible to do anything about what we have or what we are, but at this point (when the dream is so close, you can actually smell the Harbor) every bit of information helps, even if it might appear useless at first. Knowledge gives confidence, and confidence is half the battle (sorry for the cliche).

No, I don't think I would get married or divorced real quick - only for money! But I can adjust my height and become australian at will! And if Silberfuchs tells me to read "Handling the Big Jets" some more... I think I am going to do just that.

Congrats on getting hired and thanks again.
Spektor

Altyre

Spektor

There's one thing you didn't understand. They won't make a choice between those who did a good sim, answered the technical questions and are nice to talk to. If you're in a group with 12 good guys, they will hire all of you, on the other end, if they don't think any of you will fit in, they won't take anyone. That happened a few weeks ago.

What the Airbus manager said was that all he wanted to see was if he could take a 15hrs flight with you. And I just had a couple of beers...

Spektor

Point taken, Altyre. Thanks.

Spektor.

CathayPacific

Hello, I'm 15 this year, and am worrying about the cadet interviews I'll have in the future, I started meeting pilots since last year.

I am planning to have some flying lessons up to about 20 hours or so, and buy books about the interviews, and prepare for it carefully, such as knowing what kind of people Cathay wants.

Is it the right thing to do for the interview? Would best for myself better?

Thanks for answering, btw Spektor and Altyre great posts, I find them very useful!

Kev.

Spektor

CathayPacific,

Preparing for the interview as well as you can is always a great idea, so is getting some flight experience - do what ever you can.

Unfortunately, I am not very familiar with the details of Cathay Cadet selection. Try to get in touch with some people who got in as Cadets, who are going through the selection now, or these with it all to do like yourself - I am sure you will find all the help you need.

Good luck!
Spektor.

captkrunch

Great post and replies, everyone! I'm curious about the cigarette smoking item in Spektor's original post. Is cigarette smoking a deal breaker? How is it looked upon by the powers that be in Fragrant Harbour?

PlatinumCross

captkrunch:

I am not aware of any legal requirements for pilots to be non-smokers, nor would that preclude anybody from obtaining a first class medical. Some airlines have, at their discretion, openly advertised for non-smoking candidates only. I am not sure about Cathay's position on this matter.

Smoking is a hazardous habit. It may ultimately ban one from flying due to the illnesses it can cause later in life.

CathayPacific:
Don't worry too much about your cadet interview. You've still got several years!

This is a cadetship and Cathay assumes that all applicants have no prior knowledge of aviation and piloting. It's a good idea to read up on some materials for two reasons. First, you can demonstrate to Cathay that you are genuinely interested in becoming a pilot. Second, you can provide some answers just in case technical questions are asked.

You will be given some technical material to study before the second interview so prior knowledge will give you some advantage. This will be tested at a later exam and interview.

Getting flight practice will show that you are interested in aviation and help in the flight grading process.

It's difficult to say what type of people Cathay wants. Airlines do not divulge such information because it encourages candidates to behave in a way which does not truly reflect their personality. Obviously, qualities like leadership, effective communicator and team player come to mind. Also, it is preferable to demonstrate some work experience or having the discipline of finishing a prescribed educational course.

However, there are also other specifics such as company culture requirements that have to be met. No matter who you are interviewed by (aviation or not), they will make an assessment on whether you will fit in well in their company. Do not ever give canned answers. These interviewers see hundreds of applicants a year and they spot rehersed or 'perfect' answers in an instant. They will catch all lies

Just be yourself They value honest and open people. Remember, they are looking for somebody who have the skills to become a captain and a pleasant person to fly with, not Superman or Wonderwoman.

CathayPacific

PlatinumCross & Spektor:

Thank you very much for these detailed replies, I'll do my best for the interviews

Good luck to you people as well, happy flying.

The Messiah

Fellas,

Stop sweating the small stuff, Cathay are big picture people and are interested in 'you', not you being what you think they want.

Best way to prepare is know your tech stuff thoroughly and just give completely honest answers on the personal stuff. They want the truth and will know when it's not. They will not ask or care about your experiences with smoking or small animals, but how do you think you will handle Hong Kong is always a big one.

Best of luck.

Medwin

I don't know if this is going to make you feel better but during my stay at CX city last month my room was just outside the main entrance(smoking area) and everytime I look outside there's a pilot with a cigarette in his mouth.

Spektor

Busted!

I don't smoke that much and chew mints all the time! And yeah, it does make me feel a little better... Thanks, Medv.

As part of my Interview preparation, I am doing extensive research on methods and techniques of quitting. I think I am going to do it starting Monday... I mean next Monday... No seriously, I am quitting!

moosp

Spektor

I am in no way connected to recruitment at CX but from the eloquence and balance of your first post, I think you would be the type for which the recruiters are looking.

All your basic negatives are true and obvious, so no need to continue on that.

Your other questions are infinitely variable, as indeed they should be so as to ensure that CX gets a workforce of diversity. We need people with low hours or no hours for cadet entry, (if you have the right of abode in Hong Kong- passim) We also need pilots of as much experience as we can grab, as long as the experience is relevant.

You got it right in 1 as to the 50/100 ratio. Years ago we had an applicant with around 3000 hours between two ports 30 minutes apart, in a VMC country. Hours mean nothing; it is what you did in those hours that counts. The pilots who are coming to us now are remarkably well experienced, for instance 3000 hours on an interesting turbine for second officers, and 8,000 hours on jets for direct entry onto the freighter first officer positions. As other airlines close, so we can pick up their best.

Some myths I can dispel from your first post:

Most of the weighting for the scoring on the selection procedure is on the psychometric testing and interview. The simulator has its point score (not sure what percentage, but it is low) but I know of one case where a near perfect score on simulator was knocked back by the recruitment team. As pilots we have all met them of course, Aces who are insufferable in a team, but sometimes you have to wonder at the ones who are rejected.

There is no nationality preference as to where CX has bases. Perhaps this idea comes from the fact that we recruit onto the freighter to bases around the world, and if we need pilots in, say, America, we have to recruit Americans as they are the ones with a right to work in the country. It is still tricky to recruit an ex Iraqi Airlines captain to a JFK base, if you know what I mean. It looks like racism when we reject him, but we only play the piano, we didn’t write the music.

The days of CX pilots being all male are well over. Whilst we are not the smartest company at handling gender issues, the recruitment field is level. I just wish the company would give them a decent uniform, instead of a men's one tied up like a sack...

What to say about living in HK? This has been covered over and over. The bottom line is, if you show a genuine, but not manic, interest in living in the city, that is enough.

Smokers. No set protocol, I suspect that they would recruit the right candidate who was a smoker and then set the medics onto him when he was established in the company.

Medical. This seems a minefield for new recruits but it is often so simple. If you have a Class 1 or Grade A or whatever it is called in your ICAO jurisdiction you have a very, very high chance of getting a HK medical. HK tends to revert to the UK system to which it was attached until 1997, but as the ICAO medics have organised themselves over the last few years the standards are converging.

As to medical fitness, if you are in the industry, you know the idea. If a person does not have the self discipline to keep moderately fit and with a BMI within the accepted norms of the general population, then you do not have the self discipline to be in the industry. There are serious practical reasons for this. If you have a BMI of 35, and you are rejected, you will need more lawyers than sense to proceed.

As to your height, there are minimum heights on the website, but if you can reach the pedals of your Cessna, RJ, B727, it is unlikely to be a problem.

Union activity. As you have seen CX has a history of turmoil with the various ground and flight unions. Part of the problem has been a legal environment that provided no guidance, so most of the labour laws have had to be fought out in the courts.

However, most of this is common sense. If you are a rabid Trotskyist with power ambitions, I recommend that you moderate your statements. If you dropped union activists into the ocean out of your aircraft in a previous life, we do not wish to know. It you are a wimpish follower, a moderate position, one way or the other, will do no harm. CX has often been called the Foreign Legion of aviation, that is, forget your past, what you do now is the essence. I think joining the AOA (the CX substitute for a union) is a good move, and very few managers or recruiters would think the less of you for previous union membership, unless you were a vehement activist.

Single/married/divorced/?? Again it comes down to, if you were the boss, who would you employ? Essentially it does not matter. Although there is a strong Roman Catholic ethic at the top of the company, divorce has never been an issue at any level. Being married and the extra costs to the company are accepted as the cost of doing business. There is anecdotal evidence of an applicant with four children being rejected over an applicant with one, but this might have been an honest attempt to prevent him becoming part of the education trap, and that it might have been impossible for him to have found four school places in Hong Kong. (HKG education passim.)

Your comment on alcohol intake - the usual measure is weekly. If you write 21 units, as one of the doctors said, "If they are under thirty, I usually double what they write on the form." The doctors have many other ways of assessing alcohol intake, and it is not something that the vast majority of applicants should worry about. If you are suspect, you will be asked for a liver function test. (I am not sure if that is given to everyone these days).

Yet again, what would you look for if you were interviewing?

I hope this ramble helps in your information search. If you read between the lines you can probably see the point made by Machiavelli, “nothing is as bad as it seems…”


edited because MS spellcheck is not as smart as it makes out.

Spektor

moosp,

Thank you. Your post is pure gold to me, and, I am sure, to a great many wannabes with their sights set on Cathay Pacific.

While shining a welcome light on the rigors of the recruitment process, it also helps us to try Cathay Pacific on as it were, see if it fits. I realize, that ultimately it will be the airline making the final pick, but our initial choice of that airline has to be as weighed and as informed as possible. Beware what you wish for, right?

As my Big Day approaches (Stage One Interview on July 1st, NYC), strangly enough, I am beginning to relax, even though I still feel like I should read another 35 books to feel completely ready, but the all important foundation is in place. Your post, moosp, helped me realize, what was always there, I just couldn't quite put my finger on it. Foreign Legion of aviation. Having seen the actual place from the inside, I know what it stands for, and subconsciously, I was always attracted to just that aspect of a career with Cathay, aside from the other great points. (And now good luck to me trying to express THAT to the interviewers! )

I guess, what I am trying to say, is if I fail the First Stage, it wouldn't be because I am not sure Cathay is right for me, and there is a great deal of comfort in this knowledge. I think I will sleep well on the night before, moosp, and for that I thank you again.

I hope we all get the job, I hope Hong Kong is as pretty in real life as it is on post cards, I hope the promise of Cathay Pacific is true, I hope it will become our home - Cathay Patria Nostra.

Spektor.

P.S. If I fail the First Stage, it also wouldn't be because of my great new suit - it is a killer!

777300ER

Spektor,

Best of luck to you. I have a good feeling about the whole thing for you. As others here have said, if you truly have the burning desire to join Cathay, I am confident that you will be successful.

Spektor

777300ER,

May the Interview Gods hear you! Thank you for the encouragement - I will take all the good vibes I can get.

Spektor.