Boeing versus Airbus (not again!)
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Boeing versus Airbus (not again!)
Airbus and Boeing trade swipes over big-plane versus small-plane strategies
DIRK BEVERIDGE
Canadian Press
Saturday, February 21, 2004
In Canada, Airbus has made major sales to Air Canada, the insolvent Montreal-based airline that is restructuring under bankruptcy protection. The Air Canada fleet has 46 Airbus A319s. (CP)
HONG KONG (AP) - Rival airplane makers Boeing and Airbus traded jabs Friday over jets that have never even flown, highlighting sharp differences over whether the future of commercial aviation lies in superjumbos or smaller models that can fly faster.
Airbus is set to roll out its massive double-decker A380 in 2006 and boasted that last year the huge plane had already outsold Boeing's jumbo 747, the biggest jetliner in the skies for several decades, by almost 9-1.
"They had the flagship of the 20th century. We believe we have the flagship of the 21st century," John Leahy, chief commercial officer at Airbus, told an aviation conference.
Questioning the idea that bigger airplanes are better, Boeing executive Randy Tinseth said the average size of jets in key markets has been shrinking as airlines offer more flights at different times to better accommodate passengers. Tinseth touted Boeing's planned 7E7 "Dreamliner" - a smaller jet that can fly faster with greater fuel efficiency.
Speaking to the aviation forum, the two giants of global airplane manufacturing were gearing up their sales pitches for the Asian Aerospace 2004 air show next week in Singapore. Such events frequently turn into colourful debates between U.S.-based Boeing and Europe's Airbus.
Tinseth, Boeing's director of product and services marketing, said airlines could fly three of the 7E7s, carrying more people and using less fuel, than one of the big Airbus models between Hong Kong and Singapore, a top regional business route.
Leahy countered that the smaller Boeings would have to fly "wingtip to wingtip" to get that many passengers in the air during peak travel times, and added that crew costs, maintenance costs and other expenses would be higher.
Airbus projected that passenger traffic will soar in coming decades and Leahy said "we're not going to do that in little airplanes."
Leahy said Boeing's 7E7 appeared to be a copycat version of the medium-sized Airbus A330, with a slide show that superimposed diagrams of one jet on the other, making them look quite similar.
Boeing says its airplane, which does not yet have an initial customer, will be more passenger friendly, with bigger windows and slightly wider aisles and seats than other planes. The company has said the 7E7 probably won't enter the market before 2008.
Boeing and Airbus have been battling for market share in the global aircraft sector for years. In Canada, Airbus has made major sales to Air Canada, the insolvent Montreal-based airline that is restructuring under bankruptcy protection. The Air Canada fleet has 46 Airbus A319s.
However, the No. 2 carrier, WestJet Airlines of Calgary, flies only Boeing aircraft. By the end of 2005, WestJet expects to operate a fleet of 63 aircraft, of which 48 will be the next generation of fuel-efficient Boeing 737-700 jets.
© The Canadian Press 2004
DIRK BEVERIDGE
Canadian Press
Saturday, February 21, 2004
In Canada, Airbus has made major sales to Air Canada, the insolvent Montreal-based airline that is restructuring under bankruptcy protection. The Air Canada fleet has 46 Airbus A319s. (CP)
HONG KONG (AP) - Rival airplane makers Boeing and Airbus traded jabs Friday over jets that have never even flown, highlighting sharp differences over whether the future of commercial aviation lies in superjumbos or smaller models that can fly faster.
Airbus is set to roll out its massive double-decker A380 in 2006 and boasted that last year the huge plane had already outsold Boeing's jumbo 747, the biggest jetliner in the skies for several decades, by almost 9-1.
"They had the flagship of the 20th century. We believe we have the flagship of the 21st century," John Leahy, chief commercial officer at Airbus, told an aviation conference.
Questioning the idea that bigger airplanes are better, Boeing executive Randy Tinseth said the average size of jets in key markets has been shrinking as airlines offer more flights at different times to better accommodate passengers. Tinseth touted Boeing's planned 7E7 "Dreamliner" - a smaller jet that can fly faster with greater fuel efficiency.
Speaking to the aviation forum, the two giants of global airplane manufacturing were gearing up their sales pitches for the Asian Aerospace 2004 air show next week in Singapore. Such events frequently turn into colourful debates between U.S.-based Boeing and Europe's Airbus.
Tinseth, Boeing's director of product and services marketing, said airlines could fly three of the 7E7s, carrying more people and using less fuel, than one of the big Airbus models between Hong Kong and Singapore, a top regional business route.
Leahy countered that the smaller Boeings would have to fly "wingtip to wingtip" to get that many passengers in the air during peak travel times, and added that crew costs, maintenance costs and other expenses would be higher.
Airbus projected that passenger traffic will soar in coming decades and Leahy said "we're not going to do that in little airplanes."
Leahy said Boeing's 7E7 appeared to be a copycat version of the medium-sized Airbus A330, with a slide show that superimposed diagrams of one jet on the other, making them look quite similar.
Boeing says its airplane, which does not yet have an initial customer, will be more passenger friendly, with bigger windows and slightly wider aisles and seats than other planes. The company has said the 7E7 probably won't enter the market before 2008.
Boeing and Airbus have been battling for market share in the global aircraft sector for years. In Canada, Airbus has made major sales to Air Canada, the insolvent Montreal-based airline that is restructuring under bankruptcy protection. The Air Canada fleet has 46 Airbus A319s.
However, the No. 2 carrier, WestJet Airlines of Calgary, flies only Boeing aircraft. By the end of 2005, WestJet expects to operate a fleet of 63 aircraft, of which 48 will be the next generation of fuel-efficient Boeing 737-700 jets.
© The Canadian Press 2004
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nooluv...
That's an interesting observation you are making here... because as far as I know... neither aircraft has flown yet... and thus the A380's performance "estimates" are just that... estimates...!
Both aircraft have different marketing strategies... and it will be interesting to see which is the most "attractive" aircraft for the various airlines and markeds... but when all that is said... my hat off and all compliments to Airbus for launching this airplane...
Dag
Anybody know how much faster the (paper) 7E7 is projected to be than the (real) A380?
Both aircraft have different marketing strategies... and it will be interesting to see which is the most "attractive" aircraft for the various airlines and markeds... but when all that is said... my hat off and all compliments to Airbus for launching this airplane...
Dag
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Well, as far as I am concerned both the A380 & the 7E7 are both dreamliners, last time I checked the skies, I have yet to see either aircraft. The fun part will be once these ladies do take to the sky, will they fly as promised, remember the problems with the MD11 or the MD90.
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Is the 7E7 currently in production, like the A380? I thought the "Dreamliner" is still on paper, whereas the A380 is well along the way to having the first completed ... ?
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A lot of good points so far, but I couldn't see any comments about slots at the busier airports. Isn't that one of the A380's selling points ?
Pics of the first A380 fuselage section are impressive !
Pics of the first A380 fuselage section are impressive !
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7E7 will cruise at approx M0.85 i.e. pretty much the same as most Boeings and as planned for the A380. Boeing had originally proposed building the "Sonic Cruiser" which would have cruised at about 0.95 but airlines said they wanted more economy not speed. Boeing has said that the technology proposed for the Sonic Cruiser when applied to a conventional cruise speed aircraft will reduce seat mile costs by about 20% when compared to B767-300ER and A330-200. It remains to be seen whether this wil be the case. Boeing are presently canvassing for launch orders for the 7E7 and it is likely that these will come from Japanese carriers. Formal launch targetted for mid this year with first deliveries in 2008 i.e. 2 years after the A380.
The "either A380 or B7E7" arguments are about as sensible as "either B747 or B767" would have been i.e. pointless - there's likely to be room for both types to sell in adequate numbers.
The "either A380 or B7E7" arguments are about as sensible as "either B747 or B767" would have been i.e. pointless - there's likely to be room for both types to sell in adequate numbers.
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OK kids, stop arguing. Everyone knows that Boeing beats a "Bus" hands down. Even those who say the "Bus" is better know deep down inside that they would rather fly/ride a Boeing. The future will show that the 380 was a big mistake.
Remember you heard it here first
Remember you heard it here first
Our Airbus pilots say that they have some A-320s with modified FMCs/MCDUs. They are supposed to be a bit more user-friendly (i.e. cross 50 north of DQN at FL 240...).
Some who have first flown the 757 (or another FMC Boeing) then the A-320 tend to prefer the logic of the Boeing. They say the Boeings are much more logical, and not just the FMC. Those whose first automated aircraft was the 320 have a better impression of the 320's MCDU etc.
I'm trying to be detached and objective. I have never been trained on any Airbus-would not mind it one day when I'm tired of "flying" and could be senior.
Some who have first flown the 757 (or another FMC Boeing) then the A-320 tend to prefer the logic of the Boeing. They say the Boeings are much more logical, and not just the FMC. Those whose first automated aircraft was the 320 have a better impression of the 320's MCDU etc.
I'm trying to be detached and objective. I have never been trained on any Airbus-would not mind it one day when I'm tired of "flying" and could be senior.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 27th Feb 2004 at 13:27.
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Boeing is a pilots plane -> it can actually be flown by hand.
Airbus, on the other hand, is not suppose to be flown by hand, after all they placed the stick in the side so the pilots would have more room for their trays :-) The philosophy is just different.
Probably good planes but different...
7E7 in 2008; can't wait to see that bird flying.
Airbus, on the other hand, is not suppose to be flown by hand, after all they placed the stick in the side so the pilots would have more room for their trays :-) The philosophy is just different.
Probably good planes but different...
7E7 in 2008; can't wait to see that bird flying.