kebab kid

Hello

need a fast answer - i want to go to the states to do some flying in a few weeks time, to build up some hours.

As i understand, you can use a JAA license (PPL) if you get some additional paperwork from somewhere, the question is where? how much? and how long does it take?

also, is it a big hassle to get a full FAA license?

cheers KK

FlyingForFun

You need an FAA license to fly an N-registered aircraft in the States. The usual way of doing this is to get a "license based on a foreign license", which is simply a matter of paperwork.

First of all, find the appropriate form on the FAA's website. (Someone will have a link to it, I don't have it handy.) Fill it in, and send it to the FAA. You will need to nominate a FSDO - your chosen school or club in the States will be able to tell you which is their nearest FSDO.

Then (and I'm assuming here that your JAR license is UK-issued) find another form on the CAA website, and fill this form in. Send it to the CAA, together which a cheque. They will cash the cheque, and then contact the FAA to inform them that you really do have a license. Once the FAA receive this confirmation from the CAA, they will write to you to tell you that your license can be collected from your nominated FSDO. Make sure you take this letter with you, go into the FSDO, pick up your license. Then, get a BFR from an FAA CFI, and go and fly!

You say you're going "in a few weeks time", though... that might be a little tight for time, depending what you mean by "a few".

FFF
-------------

Charlie Zulu

Hi Kebab Kid,

A couple of months ago I wrote a reply to a thread which included the exact instructions on how to obtain an FAA PPL under FAR Part 61.75 which is based upon your JAA PPL. This was assuming the JAA PPL was issued in the UK.

However I am now unable to find the post and haven't got a link to it. The search function has been disabled on PPRUNE so can't even search for it. So there's nothing else I can do but to re-write the post and to find all of the links again (I'm bored in work on night shift at the moment)!

So without further ado, here's the new post:

1) Obtain the FAA form from the website.
link: http://registry.faa.gov/docs/verify61-75.pdf

Just a couple of pointers on the form itself.

Section 4 asks for the address you'd like to have the letter of authenticity sent to. Normally this would be your home address but if you are running low on time consider having the letter sent to the flying school in the USA.

Section 10 asks for the FSDO details you'd like to use to actually visit in person to obtain the FAA PPL. The FSDO you choose will have a copy of the letter sent to them also so they can match your copy and their copy up when you arrive. A list of FSDO's are located at http://www2.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsdo/.

2) Send the completed FAA form to the FAA in Oklahoma. The FAX number is 001 405 954-9922 (you can check the fax number on the FAA FAQ http://faa.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/faa....va=&p_faqid=76)

3) Obtain the CAA Form SRG1160 located at http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/pu...ils.asp?id=521.

4) When completed, send the CAA Form SRG1160 to the CAA by Fax / Mail. The Fax number is on the form. Please do NOT forget to send the £15 payment fee to the UK CAA. They will not process your application if you have forgotten this important bit!

Anyway once that is done (basically two forms, one each of the FAA and CAA) the following will happen:

1) The FAA will send you an email to the address given informing you that they have received your application and will send a request to the UK CAA. This email will probably be sent within a day of you sending the FAA form.

2) The FAA will send a request to the CAA for the verification information.

3) The CAA will cash your cheque / credit card before anything else(!)

4) The CAA will send the FAA your verified details.

5) The FAA will then send you an email informig you that your application has been successful. They will then send you a letter to the address provided in Section 4 of the FAA form and a copy to the FSDO you selected.

Once this has been done you can then go to the FSDO (don't forget to phone them first to make an appointment - required for security reasons since 9/11). Take you passport, logbook, licence, medical, letter of verification, etc etc... you will then need to fill in an 8170 form (they'll provide that at the FSDO) and you'll walk out half an hour later with an FAA PPL based on your JAA PPL.

You'll then be legal to fly as pilot in command in N registered aeroplanes. Oh before you can though you'll have to complete a BFR (Bi-Annual Flight Review) with an instructor but this'll probably be your checkout as well. The BFR is required every two years by all FAA pilots and is basically an hour or so instruction and the same in ground school.

The process took me two weeks from the download of the FAA Form to the Flying School receiving my Letter of Authenticity. So it can be done quickly.

Have a great time in the States!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

kebab kid

good stuff, thanks guys thats a big help

kk

Sensible

Here is a link to Charlie Zulu's original posting to which he refers. My attention span for work is at near zero time today so:-

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=107385

AndyDRHuddleston

I have been told by several different people that an American R/T licence and Air Law exam needs to be passed before being able to use your FAA PPL. Is this something you missed off Sensible, or is this not needed??

Cheers

ADRH

Sensible

No, once you have the conversion on the back of your CAA/JAA licence which is just an administrative excercise, all you need is a check out from an FAA instructor which will be incorporated into your checkride anyway and which is around 1hr groundschool and 1hrs flying then you are good to fly for 2 years in the USA - thats called a BFR - Bienniel Flight Review although if you rent a different airplane from a diffent place then you will need a checkride before they let you loose. It's something the insurers insist on I think. You also need to make sure that your UK licence is up to date including the UK BFR or whatever it's called here. In effect, you will have to do 2 BRF's every 2 years, one in the UK and one in the USA - It's all pretty simple really, and all thats asked is that you are sufficiently competent that you don't go and kill yourself and more importantly bend their airplane

By the way,there is no such thing as a US radio exam, it's just a quirk of the UK.

By by the way, I don't deserve any credit for the post, I just found the link that Charlie Zulu refered to, that's all - credit where credit's due but in this case it's not due. Thanks anyway!

Charlie Zulu

Hi Sensible,

Thanks for finding the link for me, I've made a note locally of the afformentioned thread now.

Ooh my head hurts (not working tonight... been at the pub in Cardiff!).

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

jacqueline

A FEW PEOPLE ARE WONDERING ABOUT JAA HOUR BUILDING IN THE US, I WENT TO DELTA CONNECTION ACADEMY, FLORIDA TO DO MINE, IT WAS VERY GOOD FOR HOUR BULIDING, VERY SAFE AIRPORT (SANFORD) AND SURROUNDINGS. IF YOU NEED FUTHER INFO ASK FOR CHRIS McSHEA AND HE'LL HELP YOU. YOU COULD ALSO GO VISIT THEM OR ASK TO PERHAPS SPEAK TO SOME OF THE EXISTING STUDENTS ABOUT HOUR BULDING. I'M SURE THEYD BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU SOME ADVICE TOO (ONLY IF THERE NOT STRESSED OUT WITH THE ATPL EXAMS THOUGH!!!)

trini

Please can everybody clarify for me? Instead waiting to have the temporary certificate to build hours in America, is it possible to do it having only an American medical certificate? I mean, can I log P1 hours flying with another person that have an American license? In that case only one of the persons is logging the hours, or both one FAA time and the other JAA?
Thanks and all the best.

FlyingForFun

Trini,

If you don't have an FAA license, then you can't log the time at all, regardless of who you fly with, unless the other person is an instructor. If you don't have time to get the paperwork done for your "based on a foreign license" license, then you can either get an FAA Student license (if you don't want to carry pax), or an FAA PPL (if you do). Not exactly sure what's involved in the latter, but the former should just be a case of getting signed off by an instructor (and probably an FAA medical, too, but I'm not sure).

If you're flying with someone else, on a valid license (as above), then, in general, only one of you can log the time. There is one exception to this: that is, if one of you is P1, under foggles, then the second person is Safety Pilot. Safety Pilot time does not count towards any JAR license or rating, and can't be logged under JAR rules, but it can be logged under FARs. So, whichever of you is not under foggles, you can count that time towards any minima that the FAA specify for future FAA licenses and ratings.

Hope that answers the question... it starts to get quite complicated.

FFF
-----------

trini

Flying for Fun thanks for your help
If I understood well, if not waiting for the temporary certificate, the only way to be sure that I can log P1 hour is flying with an instructor (JAA or FAA) or at least have a paper sign by one, but having restriction to take pax.
I think if that’s the worse scenario it is not so bad because for me the only important bit is only build asap some hours without pax.

Thanks again.

Charlie Zulu

Hi Trini,

If you haven't got an FAA PPL (restricted or unrestricted) and you fly with an instructor then you will be PUT and will not be able to log P1.

However if you obtain an FAA Medical ask for a student certificate at the same time and you will then be able to fly solo on student pilot privilages.

Be warned though that if you are signed off by an instructor then even though you have an ICAO PPL you will still be classed as a student in terms of the FAA system and you will be very limited in what you can do, where you can go etc. Class B will be out of bounds unless you have a special sign off etc. Some Class B fields will be totally out of bounds anyway. Also iirc SVFR isn't allowed on a student certificate, just PPLs and above.

The instructor has to cover him/herself and will not allow you to fly unless it is crystal clear conditions etc... ie you will be very limited. This is due to insurance requirements etc...

The school themselves wil probably have very strict weather limits for student pilots for insurance requirements. Ie whereas if you had an FAA PPL issued you'd be able to fly up to say 17 knots crosswind in a PA28 they will may limit you to 10 knots crosswind as you'll be effectively flying as a student on a student certificate and instructor signoffs.

You'd be better off getting a full FAA PPL if you don't have time to get an FAA PPL under 61.75 (based on your ICAO PPL).

To obtain a full FAA PPL you have to ensure you have 40 hours flight time including the 10 hours solo, 20 housr dual, 5 hours night etc etc... then it is a question of 1 written exam and a few hours training for ground reference manouvers such as s-turns, turns around a point, lazy eights (that maybe only commercial)... anyway you get the idea.

Once proficient with these (they are easy and will take only a couple of hours to learn) you can get your instructor to sign you off for the FAA PPL Checkride. The FAA PPL Checkride will involve an oral portion where the examiner asks you plenty of questions about the aircraft / airspace / FARs / Weather etc etc... this will take anywhere between an hour or two. Then its a quick flight to ensure you can fly and upon successful completion the examiner will issue you your FAA PPL there and then (a temporary version with the real one in the post).

Obtaining a full FAA PPL will only take a few days after which you'll be able to fly to PPL privilages without the student restrictions.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu

englishal

You may be able to log P1 if you have a student permit and have been signed off for solo's by an FAA instructor.....but this is unlikely to happen very quickly.

Apply for the FAA based on JAA, the procedure doesn't take very long, it took me 3 days I think.



Cyer

trini

Thanks Charlie Zulu for your post. I think that the best thing is really apply for the temporary certificate. I already have a FAA medical and also send the form to CAA. I realize that I don’t need to put the address of the place where I will go to do the building hours on the FAA form, so today I will fax FAA and I will wait hopping to have a quick response like Englishal had. Meantime I will try to find a nice place in Florida to build hours. Anyway I have to wait some days; I got a really bad cold.
Thanks again for all the posts helping me.

Charlie Zulu

Hi Trini,

No problem at all.

Just one note, if you have decided on where to do your hours building then under section 4 of the FAA form you can have the Verification Letter sent to the Schools address instead of your home address, this is useful if you're running low on time.

I had to get a verification letter as although I already had the FAA PPL based on my CAA PPL issued nearly five years ago, I was to add an FAA IR to it. Before the examiner could do my test he had to see a verification letter from the FAA.

My verification process took two weeks from sending the two forms off to the flying school receiving my verification letter from the FAA.

Have a nice time in the USA and hope your cold gets better!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

AndyDRHuddleston

Still a bit confused about all this licence conversion. I have a current UK issued JAA PPL with night rating. Now the question is, when I apply to have a FAA PPL issued on the basis of my JAA licence, will I be issue with a restricted licence or do I get the full thing?

Secondly, I will have renewed my JAA class one medical before I go to the states, so to fly on a full FAA PPL (JAA based) do I/can I need/use
1) a valid JAA class 1;
2) an FAA class 1 (or 2) medical based on my JAA class 1 (similar to JAA to FAA PPL conversion - paper excercise); or
3) do I need to go for a full FAA medical examination whilst in the USA?

Please help!!!

Thanks

ADRH

Charlie Zulu

Hi Andy,

I've just got home from a great birthday outing to... yes the US Embassy for yet another M-1 visa.

Anyway I'll try to help answer your questions!

If you apply to have an FAA PPL issued on the basis of your JAA PPL you will have an FAA PPL issued under FAR Part 61.75.

What this means is that your FAA PPL is a full FAA PPL but ONLY valid when your JAA PPL and Medical are valid. Your FAA PPL will also carry any restrictions that your JAA PPL does.

One such restriction on UK JAA PPL's is that flight out of sight of the surface (but not in IMC) isn't allowed. So as your FAA PPL will have the same restriction, you'd have to abide by staying in sight of the surface at all times (even if you have an IMC as the FAA don't recognise that rating). (FAA PPLs don't have the restriction). But then again the UK CAA have a pretty good rule there anyway! (IMHO).

Also if you don't have a night rating on your UK JAA PPL then you will not have a night rating on your FAA PPL. If you do have a night rating (or whatever it is called nowadays) then you'll have the automatic right to fly at night on your FAA PPL.

As you'll have a valid JAA Class 1 Medical (2 would surfice) the FAA will recognise this as long as your JAA PPL is also valid. You will *NOT* need an FAA Medical no matter what the school tells you - check FAR 61.75 for proof of this.

When you go to the FSDO to pick up your FAA PPL you will initially be given a temporary airmens certificate (FAA PPL). This is valid for 120 days whilst the Oklahoma office send out your permenant copy... (credit card style). This temporary certificate allows you to take flight as soon as you have it in your hands (assuming you have already had your FAA Bi-annual Flight Review / Checkout)!!! This is all free of charge from the FAA's point of view. ** UK CAA please take note of this!!! **

Hope this helps,

Charlie Zulu.

englishal

True, they don't recognise it, BUT IMHO having an IMC rating lifts the restriction of "in sight of the surface" from the ANO. Many people disagree with me, but many I've spoken too also agree. Its a grey area basically, but I believe that if ramp checked in the US you'd be legal ( a) becasue the "normal" FAA PPL is allowed "on-top" and b) due to the fact that the IMC rating allows you "on-top" in the UK).

You do NOT need a FAA medical as pointed out, but you can have one if you wish. I normally get my JAA class 2 renewed by a dual FAA/JAA AME who's happy to issue my class 2 FAA with no extra examination, and only a £10 fee......

One other note, don't forget to complete the "Verification of authenticity" process before you go.

EA

AndyDRHuddleston

Have just completed the forms for the CAA to obtain my FAA PPL and thought that I'd best phone them up to clarify the fee (Not given on their current 'Scheme of Charges' form). Good job I did, as the fee has gone up to £16 from the £15 that Charlie Zulu stated at the start of this thread (Feb 2004)

Not a major point, but it could save you the hassle of having your request put on hold whilst they inform you of the increased cost.

All the best

ADRH