proxus

Hi there and with greetings from Iceland.

I am seeking infos on all kinds of school in which to choose from when I start to train.

I've haven't found any "rumours" about this school/program

Do you know anything about this school like f.ex:

1. is it a good one ?

2. Is the flight training in USA any good ?

3. It was a little unclear at their webside how the program is conducted, other than you go at the beginning to USA to start flight training while studying "distant learning". Are their manuals written by them or do they come from some other school like OAT f. ex.

4. I was comparing this school to Norwegian Aviation training, and if I had the money I would probably go there. Any advice on that school would be appreciated !

5. If you have ANY "rumour" please post it because I have been looking at schools in UK also and I'm beginning to turn in circles.

Greetings and with kind regards.

Proxus

Freak On A Leash

I assume you`re talking about the NAIA/NEAR deal...?
The training at NAIA is fine - there have been a lot of Scandihooligans there, and the school has a good reputation here in Norway. Went there myself and was very satisfied with the way things were done. Since I was there prior to JAA implementation and the NEAR co-operation I can`t really give you any info either way - sorry.
But traditionally, NAIA has been the quickest and cheapest option for people who want to become paid pilots.

If you`re wondering about whether to go to the US or stay in Europe... let`s see... the US is cheaper, faster, gets you more hours in less time, aviation friendly... the list goes on. The thing is that Europe is none of the above. It`ll take you around 2 years to get a CPL and fATPL, but then you only have around 250 hours. Wanna be an instructor in Europe? Find out how much the course costs and how long it takes

As you can see I`m highly in favor of US schools and then doing a conversion to a European license. Basically it takes less time, costs less (remember you have to re-pay your loans) and you get more hours out of it because being an instructor in the US is a full-time job.

Crossunder

I agree with FoL. Go to the States, get your licences quickly and cheaply. I wish all professionals could've had this option.
Imagine how nice it would be if doctors (or other professionals for that matter) could do the same?! Then you could take your MD.PhD in a couple of months, do some on-the-job training in Mexico, say, 1000 hours in the ER in Paco's Pay-per-stitch facilities and and get hired by a fancy reconstructive surgery clinic in California afterwards. Great, huh?

perrepilot

do you get a job as an instructor at NAIA after training, or do you just get the CFI license and have to look for a job?

PP

sidestep

Yup, go for the fast and easy program! Become a professional by taking the "cheaper, faster, gets you more hours in less time" approach.

That's just the way it is, cause that's the way it's always been. And god-damn if anyone dares to try and lift the training of pilots onto a higher level of quality and knowledge.... who do they think we are? Professionals?

But if you got some spare time, ask yourself why a program in Europe takes minimum 2 years. Why is it a harder program? Why is there actually a minimum standard which not every Joe with a credit-card can meet?

Hotel Charlie

sidestep,

You donīt know Jack ****!! Why do you think a US rating is (or at least was before JAR) accepted in Europe but not the other way around! Iīll tell you that doing a checkride for the FAA is a lot more demanding than doing one for the CAA, and Iīve done several for both!! Iīd realy like to know how much training you have done in the states. They are a lot more efficient when it comes to studying and working for that matter and that is why things go a lot faster "over there"! Iīm looking forward to hearing about your US flight school experience!

sidestep

Missing the point, are we?

There are plenty of excellent aviation academies / training centers in the US, who'll match or surpass any in Europe - or the rest of the world for that matter. Look at Sheppards or FlightSafety Boeing...

However, there is also an overwhelming amount of training centers (whereever they may be) who do nothing but sell licenses - quick, fast and without substance. And hell, they'll even throw in 500 hours of bopping around in a C152 as an instructor for free! Perhaps the time is here to differenciate between "hours" and "competence."

And that is what our friend here, Pierrepilot, should carefully evaluate when faced with promises of "quick and easy" programs. If program A can offer a CPL/IR MEP with CFI rating in 6 months, while another does the same over 32 months - it's not all contributed to "studying and working for that matter". There's a difference in quality. And then we can debate which standards we want in new license holders, but in my humble opinion we still have miles to go - especially in regards to theoretical knowledge.

As for me, I've not been a student in the US, but involved in aviation in the pacific northwest (washington state) and done license check-rides and written examinations in Canada (where I still fly regularly.) In europe, I've worked with fly-klubb, TRTO and FTO training. And license conversions.

And yes, I do know jack-****.

Hotel Charlie

sidestep,

Well Iīd think with the vast experience You have You ought to know that we are talking about serious flight schools. The way You put it it sounded like all american flight schools were no good because they are efficient. Yes there are scumbag flightschools and they might even take 18 monthes out of your time and still be ****!
Someone mentioned NAIA and they asked questoins about it and you kind of insinuate that it is a place where you donīt get an education worth s... but a "license to kill". This might not be what you ment, but then you need to be more clear!

proxus,

If I had to do it again today Iīd definitely go to NAIA again. From what I hear they run a parallell thing were you get both FAA and JAA licenses when done. Good luck which everway You choose!

perrepilot

Hotel Charlie:

Is it a long time since you graduated from NAIA? I've heard some things about the school, like the dormitories are rotten and the instructors doesn't know how they should train scandinavian students because they don't get enough information etc etc...
What is your opinion of the school?

I am of the opinion that it is better to have many hours rather than just intensive training, so I really am interested in an instructor job. My plan is to do my PPL here in Trondheim, build some hours by towing gliders, before going to NAIA or NAC or something to get commercial, and maybe work as an instructor there to build some more hours. After that, who knows? Maybe Twin Otter in Africa??
BTW I'm 16 years old.

Happy landings!

PP

proxus

Does then anyone know if the Naia school is high standard or not.
I was looking at NAC because I do want high level of professionalism and training, I don't want it easy, but then money comes into the equation and that changes the outcom rather much.
For the time being, it is not enough to have good training and few hrs to get the first job, but good training and lots of hrs.

I am seeking the good but cheap way as any of us do when they'll start looking for some flight education, isn't it ?

Sorry for the double post, Bad bad back button

proxus, I've removed your double post for you. You can do so yourself in the future if you want; just click on the "edit" button at the top of the post and then put a tick in the "delete" box in the left top corner. If you want to change anything in a post after you have written and submitted it, just click on the same "edit" button and change whatever you like. Then click on "save changes" at the bottom of the page.
Hilsen
flapsforty

Crossunder

Depends on what you mean by high standards. Don't know if they've graduated any of the "combined FAA-JAA"-students yet. I know a guy who's over there right now. A lot of heavy delays and uncertainties. Perhaps when they get some experience with this new peogramme it will improve? Until then; I wouldn't be their test-bunny. Wait until the first 2-4 classes have graduated, and at least until they've finished moving their organisation to Vestlandet. Dunno how much NEAR/NAIA costs, but in Norway, the price ranges from 580.000 - 670.000.
Best way to get a quality education at a low price would be TFHS in Sweden; courtesy of The Government of Sweden

Best of luck!

Hotel Charlie

perrepilot,

Thinking of it , yes it is quite a while ago. Actually17 years ago . Well You should ofcourse talk to someone who is a little more fresh out of NAIA than I am! But still Iīm pretty sure the living quarters arenīt rotten, and when it comes to the instructors not knowing what to do with the new FAA/JAA course thatīs probbably only the first "comby" class that experienced that! And yes the opportunety to get your first flying job is most likely a lot better in the US than in Scandinavia.

Freak On A Leash

I`ll try to clear it up a bit for you...
The dorms (when I was there a few years back) were well used, but as I was completing the course they were in the process of builiding some new dorms. BTW, the dorms are included in the overall price and are at the airport (3 minutes walking distance). Hope you realise that most of the time you`ll be studying (hopefully) and flying (up to several flights daily when you get a bit seasoned) instead of looking at the dorm walls.
The FAA checkrides had a much higher standard than the CAA CPL I did, even though the written exams in the States are easy compared to the European ones. Let`s put it this way - for every checkride in the States you do an oral exam before the flight itself and in my opinion this is a much better way of determining the applicant`s level of knowledge and understanding for the given certificate/rating than any of the European written exams do. Ask yourself this: Who would you rather have as a pilot (putting yourself in a passenger`s position), a 250 hour bookworm or a person who has 2000 hours worth of hands on real world flying experience? This is what the whole "buy a type rating and we`ll hire you" European b.s. is about
and it undermines the general public`s perception of aviation.
And to tell you the truth... if I had a greencard I wouldn`t even look towards Europe.
To answer another question... after obtaining the CFI you do have to look for work as an instructor, but NAIA is very helpful with this phase, and I would guesstimate about 50% of the NAIA graduates end up instructing at NAIA.
The thing is that in the States flight schools are big business, and of course you`ll find some lousy ones, but you`ll also find some good ones. You shouldn`t be too worried about getting a job after becoming an instructor - it`s a large country...

perrepilot

Wow, thanks a lot FOAL! That cleared up alot. I'm sure proxus sends his regards as well Sounds like a nice school day, studying aviation, fly for a couple of hours and then study more Did you get to do any nice NAV trips? Would you recomend a JAR PPL before attending (tricky question, I know), if I'm planning to at least try to get a job here in Norway?

Hotel Charlie, which airline do you work for now?

Happy flying:P

PP

Miserlou

I would advise anyone considering a career as a pilot not to bother!

For those who don't want to listen to the voice of reason then I'd advise you to train where you want to work.

Don't go to the States and think things will be easier for you when you come back because you've got a bunch of hours.

The major difference is the system, that is training environment and airspace is more congested in Europe and this requires a higher standard and offers a greater experience level.

Just to calm some of the people down who are already starting to steam, I pose the question, how do you learn judgement when the weather's flyable 365 days a year?
What's the point in getting an instrument rating in a blue sky?

Remember, when you turn, up study the weather, explain to your friends why you're not going anywhere then pack your things and go home again, you've just made one of the more difficult decisions in aviation.

No, get your licences in Europe, at greater cost and more hassle all round THEN go to the States and really enjoy the freedom and apparent ease of their system.

The funny thing about this whole debate is that, in the end, there is very little difference in the cost. It can even be cheaper in Europe if the pilot market is good.

Hotel Charlie

Miserlou,

Where in the States did you fly? I was in the US for 3 years, flying up and down on the eastcoast first instructing but later flying freight and pax. After having flown in Europe for the last 13 years to all the major airports ( FRA,MUN,LGW,AMS and a lot more) I still have not encountered any airspace that was more dens than the Northeast of the US!!!

Now when it comes to getting a job, Iīm very glad I had the hours and experience I had when I came back īcause that is the only reason I did get a job and the others didnīt!
About the wx. The nastiest and most demanding wx Iīve experienced was during 3 years in the US versus 13 in Europe including Norway.

I realy hope You have flown professionaly in the US making your comments and advice credible! But if not I advise You not to give people advice that You can not stand by!

perrepilot,

I would start flying a glider if You just want to try flying. Itīs cheaper and a lot of fun. When it comes to the PPL I did that before I went to NAIA and got credit for that but donīt know if that still is the deal! If not Iīd stick to the glider just for fun and an exellent way to learn stick and rudder! Good Luck!
Iīm with BU by the way

perrepilot

CH:
I am a "glider student"! Oh, yes it is a lot of fun!!!!

PP

proxus

The point is that the cause I'm doing this is simple: Cost !
I know I maybe have to give up a change to fly in the most challenging weathers, but I think that experience and experience and some more experience counts for now if you don't have deep pockets. Even for this I have to sell my flat!

It is difficult times, and time of difficult decisions but I think that now is the time for me 'cos I'm getting 25 yrs old and age can just work against you after 25 yrs.

On the other hand I would like wery much to nock the knowledge into my head by taking it intergrated but it is not an option, other than winning the Viking lottery !!

The ATPL ( JAA ) is taught distance learning (right ?)
What books do they use, are they any good ?
should I try to scrape some money together and buy from OAT, Bristol or similar ??

Regards

Proxus

Zico

proxus,

Regarding the weather in the US, listen to Hotel Charlie, and forget about miserlouīs statements. He has obviously only listened to what European flightschools have to say about the US, (you see, they donīt like loosing potential students to the US), and is just following that ill informed path.
Of course, choose a flightschool in southern New Mexico, and you wonīt see much IMC. Just as you wonīt, if you choose a school in the south of Spain really.
But in 3 years in the Northeast US, just as HC, I have seen more, and worse, weather than I have, flying Scandinavia and Europe for 10 years.
The rest of the problems about converting your licences, sorry I donīt know much about that.

Rgds. Zico

proxus

I thing that the ratings from NAIA will be converted once in Norway again.

I received a reply from Swiss Aviation Training today. They have a similar program altough it is AB - Initio , which fits my head perfectly. They train in partnership with Flight Safety in USA

Is it worth considering do you think ??
Any word on how hard it is to get in, any word on how good is the training there ?

the cost is similar to NEAR/NAIA deal, but intregrated and a lot less hrs ( 180 I think )

Regards

Proxus