MAN777

Dragonair / Cathay B747F engine cowlings struck the runway on landing, in the early hours of this morning at Manchester. One burst tyre and cowling damage.

T'was a tad windy last night 55 knots x wind.

Spruit

What was the weather at the time? I was under the impression that the maximum X-Wind component for the 747-400 series was less than this? Or was this a gust incident?

I'm open to correction on the maximum X-Wind!

Glad no one was injured tho, bit o bent metal and pride i'm sure.

Spru!

geh065

Isn't this the one they have just fixed and finally returned to service after flap damage?

MAN777

This was a couple of hours earlier when stuff was diverting, the winds became very gusty during showers, continued into the night.

METAR: EGCC 292250Z 28036G55KT 250V310 3700 SHRA FEW024 SCT029 10/07 Q0992
BECMG 27027G40KT 9999 NSW

joebanana

No that was one of CX's Classics at FRA, HVY I believe. Struck 3 pods apparently. No 4 & 3 followed by No 1.

spannersatcx

Yes it is the same 744 that had flaps changed there a little while back. The actual flap change took 8 hrs the rest of the time was logistics and weather.

Basil

Doesn't look like a 55kn xwind; more like about 25kn reducing to 15kn with gusts 35kn reducing to 20kn.
Still a handful on a dark and dirty night, tired etc.

Chris Scott

EGCC 010420Z 28029G42KT 9999 FEW030 SCT040 08/02 Q0998
EGCC 010350Z 27027G44KT 9999 FEW033 SCT036 08/02 Q0998 NOSIG
EGCC 010320Z 28028G39KT 9999 SCT034 BKN043 08/02 Q0997 NOSIG
EGCC 010250Z 28028KT 9999 FEW031 SCT038 08/02 Q0996 NOSIG
EGCC 010220Z 28023G35KT 9999 FEW038 SCT045 08/02 Q0995 NOSIG
EGCC 010150Z 28021KT 9999 FEW040 SCT045 08/02 Q0994 NOSIG
EGCC 010120Z 28024G39KT 9999 FEW032 08/03 Q0994 NOSIG
EGCC 010050Z 27024G34KT 9999 FEW028 SCT032 09/04 Q0993
EGCC 010020Z 26025G38KT 9999 FEW022 SCT026 09/05 Q0993 TEMPO SHRA
EGCC 292350Z 27024G37KT 9999 FEW032 08/05 Q0992 TEMPO SHRA
EGCC 292320Z 27025G36KT 7000 SHRA FEW022 SCT026 08/05 Q0993 BECMG NSW
EGCC 292250Z 28036G55KT 250V310 3700 SHRA FEW024 SCT029 10/07 Q0992 BECMG 27027G40KT 9999 NSW
EGCC 292220Z 26035KT 9999 SCT030 12/07 Q0991 TEMPO SHRA

Mag. Variation = 3W
Therefore, at 0120z, mean Wind bearing = 283(M)
Rwys 24L/R bearing 234(M)
Therefore, at 0120z, wind gust to 39 kts @ at (or more than) 50 degrees off Rwy bearing.
50 deg = 0.75
0.75 X 39 kts = 30 kts X-W/C

[For the uninitiated, wind bearings usually increase with gust in N. Hemisphere. In this case that would represent a "double-wammy", as far as the crosswind component is concerned.]
From 2350z, no rain reported.

Hope this helps.

Basil

Chris,
Very good point.
Glad I wasn't flying it, although I'd rather have been in the old dowager than a 737. Our ex fast jet guys used to comment on it's inertia but, sometimes, a bit of inertia calms things down a bit

Down Three Greens

Landed at Manch in an Airbus A330 at around 0020Z - Flap 3. It was very bumpy from Dayne and on the 23R approach. A little sporty. 3,000ft wind in the region of 290/50kts but steady. Wind correctly shown as around 280/25G38-42 at touchdown and on instantaneous ND W/V readout. IAS Speed variation -5+10kts. Runway wet x 3 with showers to the North.

Glad we didnt arrive an hour earlier though as HF VOLMET gave gusts to 55kts. Raised a few eyebrows over France tho!!

DTG

WincoDinco

At a few points during the night, the Twr controller reported gusting to 62kts! Watching the approaches, it was very hairy indeed! Plenty of aircraft were going missed from upto 4 miles to touchdown.

Molokai

Yikes! I hope they did a clean sweep of the runway after that. Those pesky nuts & bolts, bits and pieces taht came off can prove really dangerous to following aircrafts.

Outtahere

Cx/ Ka Xwind limit B744 is 30 knots, despite the Fctm guidelines being higher.

Suzeman

Molokai

Fear not. The runway was closed for all operations for some 40 minutes after the event whilst a very thorough runway inspection was carried out using a mobile lighting tower and several inspection vehicles

Suzeman

Pilot Pete

Interesting. With wind from that direction at MAN you need to get pretty near to the ground where it quite often calms down if you want to make a serious attempt at landing. (Don't get me wrong, no criticism of someone canning it at 4nm) We did so at midnight and it wasn't pretty all the way to the last 100' when it just steadied enough to be acceptable. Only other 'better' option at that time was LPL where it was howling, but only 10 degrees off the runway.

PP

Chris Scott

Quote from Down Three Greens:
3,000ft wind in the region of 290/50kts but steady. Wind correctly shown as around 280/25G38-42 at touchdown and on instantaneous ND W/V readout. IAS Speed variation -5+10kts.
[Unquote]

Presume GS-MINI (managed speed) was in use? How do you like it? In my experience, new guys (on the A320) used to be very suspicious of it until they got used to it. Also - on the FMC PERF page - they would often insert a higher wind strength than the mean wind reported by the tower, in the mistaken belief this would give them more fat above VLS, to allow for wind shear. [In fact, of course, the reverse is the case, because it results in a lower minimum GS, even though the "managed" IAS is higher.]

Excuse me for appearing to go off-topic, but would be interested to hear your experience of this last night. The B747, of course, does not have (automatic) GS-Mini.

Chris

Pilot Pete

We were downwind right under vectors with an airspeed of 190kts and ground speed of 275kts at 5000'. Nice vectoring by the approach controller though, turned on just right. ohh errr.

PP

oldsmithy

Hi I have now changed my definition of having a bad day. Three POD strikes,bugger, bugger, bugger, oh that one's ok...........................

cobra2driver

More damage than first thought, all 4 engine coulings hit the runway with No 4 engine being a write-off. Will be grounded at MAN for at least 6 weeks pending repair.

spannersatcx

Incorrect, 1, 2 & 4 hit, no 1 & 2 nose cowls and fan cowls damaged but repairable. These will be removed and sent for repair (2 week turnaround).
No 4 C ducts damaged, to be replaced, no 4 nose and fan cowls damaged, repairable I think, no4 engine to be replaced as a precaution due some damage to gearbox, (engine will be overhauled).