Age Discrimination: Fighting the CAA! (+ update)
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Age Discrimination: Fighting the CAA! (+ update)
This is really a carry over from TC's medical thread which veered onto this subject. Last year I wrote to my MP about this and he passed on the reply from Sir Roy McNulty, Chairman of the CAA.
I offer a brief quote, "I must therefore advise you that we are not prepared to extend licence privileges beyond those in current legislation unless or until we are given a clear indication that we will be required to do so in the future"
In my words then, "The CAA will do what the Government orders them to do, but the Government will do what the CAA advises them". Nice circular Catch 22! I know, let's do nothing, its easier!
Here is a link to the CAA website that is of interest to all of us beyond the first flush of youth!
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/43/Age%20D...egislation.pdf
If the link doesn't work go into www.caa.co.uk and search using "age discrimination"
In my view if you can pass the medical, what's the prob?
I offer a brief quote, "I must therefore advise you that we are not prepared to extend licence privileges beyond those in current legislation unless or until we are given a clear indication that we will be required to do so in the future"
In my words then, "The CAA will do what the Government orders them to do, but the Government will do what the CAA advises them". Nice circular Catch 22! I know, let's do nothing, its easier!
Here is a link to the CAA website that is of interest to all of us beyond the first flush of youth!
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/43/Age%20D...egislation.pdf
If the link doesn't work go into www.caa.co.uk and search using "age discrimination"
In my view if you can pass the medical, what's the prob?
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Sadly BJ as an industry we have let ourselves down. We are facing a desperate shortage of experience but rather than band together and make a serious attack on the situation via BHAB and BALPA we have watched one or two individuals such as Uncle Ian put their heads above the parapet and then sat back and waited for a result.
At any meeting of operators these days the cry of where are the next generation and can we keep the old guys going is the most frequently heard sound.
The next generation are being stymied by the sheer cost of the qualifications and don't yet have the experience for the job.
The old guys who have all the experience are now falling off the perch at a scary rate of knots and our beloved CAA seem to be ignoring the potential safety problems. Maybe they see it as a way to finally close us down and get rid of the problem that way.
If a pilot can pass the medical and all his checks then he is as far as I'm concerned fit to fly single pilot public transport. At this firm we have lost three first class freelancers to public transport this year due to age. Strange how they still pass the meds, still pass the checks and are still allowed to fly the aircraft owners privately over the same landscape they were flying over last year.
The CAA and BHAB are paid for by us, the operators. Perhaps its time we decided they are past it and paid someone else to regulate and represent us.
Knowing my luck by the time I'm due to go retirement will have gone up to seventy.
At any meeting of operators these days the cry of where are the next generation and can we keep the old guys going is the most frequently heard sound.
The next generation are being stymied by the sheer cost of the qualifications and don't yet have the experience for the job.
The old guys who have all the experience are now falling off the perch at a scary rate of knots and our beloved CAA seem to be ignoring the potential safety problems. Maybe they see it as a way to finally close us down and get rid of the problem that way.
If a pilot can pass the medical and all his checks then he is as far as I'm concerned fit to fly single pilot public transport. At this firm we have lost three first class freelancers to public transport this year due to age. Strange how they still pass the meds, still pass the checks and are still allowed to fly the aircraft owners privately over the same landscape they were flying over last year.
The CAA and BHAB are paid for by us, the operators. Perhaps its time we decided they are past it and paid someone else to regulate and represent us.
Knowing my luck by the time I'm due to go retirement will have gone up to seventy.
Don't you just love the CAA clinging to arbitrary regulations.....resulting from their "discretionary powers"?
They will quickly point out the presence of "waivers" to the rule or regulation but then immediately tell you that is not their policy (granting waivers as set forth in the rule/regulation).
Bottom line....to make any changes requires some Jobsworth to make a decision that can be tracked back to him and thus be held accountable for having made that decision.
It is far easier for them to point at the rule, reg, or memo and smile and say "Nope! No...have to follow the rule here!"
There are Offshore pilots in their mid-70's and who have had hip replacements still flying in the Gulf of Mexico. As long as they can fog mirrors and toddle to the aircraft and remember how to find home and pass a class II medical exam....they are good to go in the FAA system.
They will quickly point out the presence of "waivers" to the rule or regulation but then immediately tell you that is not their policy (granting waivers as set forth in the rule/regulation).
Bottom line....to make any changes requires some Jobsworth to make a decision that can be tracked back to him and thus be held accountable for having made that decision.
It is far easier for them to point at the rule, reg, or memo and smile and say "Nope! No...have to follow the rule here!"
There are Offshore pilots in their mid-70's and who have had hip replacements still flying in the Gulf of Mexico. As long as they can fog mirrors and toddle to the aircraft and remember how to find home and pass a class II medical exam....they are good to go in the FAA system.
I think I'm right in the belief that BHAB are looking into this...I'll raise it at the next emergency services sub committee next month.
What we are looking at here is the emergence of a ground swell of activity against this discrimination. Hopefully it will develop its own momentum to be able to successfully challenge what we will look back on as plainly an illegal practice.
What we are looking at here is the emergence of a ground swell of activity against this discrimination. Hopefully it will develop its own momentum to be able to successfully challenge what we will look back on as plainly an illegal practice.
Hovering AND talking
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Originally Posted by Sassy Dahling
Bottom line....to make any changes requires some Jobsworth to make a decision that can be tracked back to him and thus be held accountable for having made that decision.
The whole of the Public Sector is petrified of making a decision. Everyone is scared of being sued or being seen to be partisan. Every decision has to go through reports, presentations, sub-committees (Lawd help yer Thomas!), main committees by which time the purpose of the initial proposal has suddenly been lost.
The CAA like to try to think they operate like Private Sector commercial organisation but they are still a Quango and still suffer from the immovable machinery mentality that existed from the days of being within the Civil Service.
The watchword that all these Quangos is scared of is DIVERSITY. That's the key. I'm not being facile either.
Cheers
Whirls
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Ifr you want an example of lack of logic in the system, how about this: Being over 65 I can't fly public transport any more, but to examine for a commercial skills test, I have to maintain a commercial licence and (expensively) a class one medical. This when the guy in the other seat is by definition already a qualified pilot and could fly the helicopter if I keeled over.
Rotorfossil thinks it's illogical. When I reached 65 I got myself an Australian licence to continue flying in the Far East. The company I am working for are bringing a British registered aircraft in for a short term contract. They would like me to fly it but I can't on my British licence because I am over 65. If they rubbed out the G reg and replaced it with a VH reg then I could fly the same aircraft with the same passengers over the same route with no trouble at all.
FAA to propose pilot retirement age change from 60 to 65
WASHINGTON, D.C. — Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator Marion C. Blakey today announced that the FAA will propose to raise the mandatory retirement age for U.S. commercial pilots from 60 to 65. Speaking before pilots and aviation experts at the National Press Club, Blakey said that the agency plans to propose adopting the new International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standard that allows one pilot to be up to age 65 provided the other pilot is under age 60.
The FAA plans to issue a formal Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) later this year and will publish a final rule after careful consideration of all public comments, as required by law.
“A pilot’s experience counts — it’s an added margin of safety,” said Blakey. “Foreign airlines have demonstrated that experienced pilots in good health can fly beyond age 60 without compromising safety.”
On September 27, 2006, Administrator Blakey established a group of airline, labor and medical experts to recommend whether the United States should adopt the new ICAO standard and determine what actions would be necessary if the FAA were to change its rule. The Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) did not reach a consensus recommendation but did provide detailed insight and analysis that will be helpful as the FAA develops a rule.
Since 1959, the FAA has required that all U.S. pilots stop flying commercial airplanes at age 60. In November 2006, ICAO, the United Nations’ aviation organization, increased the upper age limit for pilots to age 65, provided that the other pilot is under age 60.
The November 29, 2006 Age 60 ARC report, appendices, and public comments are available online at http://dms.dot.gov, docket number 26139.
(FAA Release No. AOC 03-07 January 30, 2007)
WASHINGTON, D.C. — Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator Marion C. Blakey today announced that the FAA will propose to raise the mandatory retirement age for U.S. commercial pilots from 60 to 65. Speaking before pilots and aviation experts at the National Press Club, Blakey said that the agency plans to propose adopting the new International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standard that allows one pilot to be up to age 65 provided the other pilot is under age 60.
The FAA plans to issue a formal Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) later this year and will publish a final rule after careful consideration of all public comments, as required by law.
“A pilot’s experience counts — it’s an added margin of safety,” said Blakey. “Foreign airlines have demonstrated that experienced pilots in good health can fly beyond age 60 without compromising safety.”
On September 27, 2006, Administrator Blakey established a group of airline, labor and medical experts to recommend whether the United States should adopt the new ICAO standard and determine what actions would be necessary if the FAA were to change its rule. The Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) did not reach a consensus recommendation but did provide detailed insight and analysis that will be helpful as the FAA develops a rule.
Since 1959, the FAA has required that all U.S. pilots stop flying commercial airplanes at age 60. In November 2006, ICAO, the United Nations’ aviation organization, increased the upper age limit for pilots to age 65, provided that the other pilot is under age 60.
The November 29, 2006 Age 60 ARC report, appendices, and public comments are available online at http://dms.dot.gov, docket number 26139.
(FAA Release No. AOC 03-07 January 30, 2007)
Maybe there's light at the end of a loooooooong tunnel?
skadi
Tightgit
I read all this, agreed and decided to get in on the No 10 e-petition
bandwagon
Link: Single Pilot age limit
So come on then, lets be having you.....
bandwagon
Link: Single Pilot age limit
So come on then, lets be having you.....
PM's petition page
Hi,
I've read your petition, why stop at age 65? Any age limit in my view is discriminatory. Pilots & not just pilots, should be free to retire when they wish to do so, not when forced to do so by the bureaucracy. However, I think you're going to continue to lose on this one because I suspect the Insurance Industry will drive the premiums up if over 65 pilots continue to fly public transport?
with fraternal greetings, ambi
I've read your petition, why stop at age 65? Any age limit in my view is discriminatory. Pilots & not just pilots, should be free to retire when they wish to do so, not when forced to do so by the bureaucracy. However, I think you're going to continue to lose on this one because I suspect the Insurance Industry will drive the premiums up if over 65 pilots continue to fly public transport?
with fraternal greetings, ambi
Tightgit
Stopping at 65 because every other professional pilot has to! (in UK anyway)
Droopy, I'm not sure I'll want to shuffle out to the ac when I'm gone 60 either. I'm also not sure whether the Observers will look after my zimmer frame properly. i just want the right to!
Droopy, I'm not sure I'll want to shuffle out to the ac when I'm gone 60 either. I'm also not sure whether the Observers will look after my zimmer frame properly. i just want the right to!
I quite agree: 65 is just as discriminatory as 60 
Re word the petition to remove any age limit, otherwise it won't have any credence with the Bureaucrats: they will be able to bin it without any trouble at all
Re word the petition to remove any age limit, otherwise it won't have any credence with the Bureaucrats: they will be able to bin it without any trouble at all
The Original Whirly
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I've signed it.
I think when I'm 64 1/2 I'll be a lot happier tootling around doing short pleasure flights than teaching autorotations to cackhanded students twice my size who seem determined to kill us...and that's legal now!
Yes, any age discrimination should be outlawed, but let's start somewhere.
I think when I'm 64 1/2 I'll be a lot happier tootling around doing short pleasure flights than teaching autorotations to cackhanded students twice my size who seem determined to kill us...and that's legal now!
Yes, any age discrimination should be outlawed, but let's start somewhere.
Excellent and very constructive idea Andy - well done and thanks.
I will spread the word through the BHAB, PEUG and local networking from my end.
My worry continues to be:
The only people who will suffer from this are those commercial pilots (single) in charter/some corporate/emergency services. That's it!
No-one else is affected.
That must amount to, what....300 pilots, if that.
Is this enough to change legislation.
I will spread the word through the BHAB, PEUG and local networking from my end.
My worry continues to be:
The only people who will suffer from this are those commercial pilots (single) in charter/some corporate/emergency services. That's it!
No-one else is affected.
That must amount to, what....300 pilots, if that.
Is this enough to change legislation.
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TC,
They once altered UK legislation to allow Sikhs the permission to ride motorbikes without Helmets, now there aint many of those people compared with the rest of us Brits,
Vfr
Peter R-B
They once altered UK legislation to allow Sikhs the permission to ride motorbikes without Helmets, now there aint many of those people compared with the rest of us Brits,
Vfr
Peter R-B
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"They once altered UK legislation to allow Sikhs the permission to ride motorbikes without Helmets, now there aint many of those people compared with the rest of us Brits,"
that could be read as being very effective legislation!!!
that could be read as being very effective legislation!!!
