MoD forced to hire civilian helicopters in Afghanistan
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MoD forced to hire civilian helicopters in Afghanistan
MoD forced to hire civilian helicopters in Afghanistan
By Francis Elliott and Raymond Whitaker
Published: 15 October 2006
Britain is so short of helicopters in Afghanistan that military chiefs are being forced to scour the world for civilian aircraft to support its troops after the US rejected a plea to help plug the shortfall.
An ageing fleet of just eight Chinooks is working around the clock to supply and reinforce soldiers in remote outposts facing waves of Taliban attacks. The only Chinook in the Falklands was taken away for use in the campaign.
The revelations come in the wake of the outburst by General Sir Richard Dannatt, the army chief, against the Government's military strategy last week.
The Independent on Sunday can also reveal that reconnaissance and intelligence missions in Afghanistan are being affected by the lack of smaller and more flexible helicopters. But senior military officials said that when UK commanders asked for temporary deployment of US helicopters in Afghanistan, they were told there were none to spare.
Instead, the MoD has been forced to seek out commercial operators for non-combat operations, to free more military craft for use at the front line. So urgent is the need that Britain is understood to be asking other nations that have ordered Merlin helicopters from Westland to allow the MoD to requisition them.
Just last weekend Tony Blair said: "If the commanders on the ground want more equipment, armoured vehicles for example, more helicopters, that will be provided. Whatever package they want we will do."
...
By Francis Elliott and Raymond Whitaker
Published: 15 October 2006
Britain is so short of helicopters in Afghanistan that military chiefs are being forced to scour the world for civilian aircraft to support its troops after the US rejected a plea to help plug the shortfall.
An ageing fleet of just eight Chinooks is working around the clock to supply and reinforce soldiers in remote outposts facing waves of Taliban attacks. The only Chinook in the Falklands was taken away for use in the campaign.
The revelations come in the wake of the outburst by General Sir Richard Dannatt, the army chief, against the Government's military strategy last week.
The Independent on Sunday can also reveal that reconnaissance and intelligence missions in Afghanistan are being affected by the lack of smaller and more flexible helicopters. But senior military officials said that when UK commanders asked for temporary deployment of US helicopters in Afghanistan, they were told there were none to spare.
Instead, the MoD has been forced to seek out commercial operators for non-combat operations, to free more military craft for use at the front line. So urgent is the need that Britain is understood to be asking other nations that have ordered Merlin helicopters from Westland to allow the MoD to requisition them.
Just last weekend Tony Blair said: "If the commanders on the ground want more equipment, armoured vehicles for example, more helicopters, that will be provided. Whatever package they want we will do."
...
Does this actually mean that GB is hiring civilian contractors in Afghanistan, or are they hiring civilian contractors outside Afghanistan to be able to bring more british military helicopters to Afghanistan?
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Mod enquire about EC225
It had been stated in the Eurocopter website that a UK operator (no name giving) has indicated that they are willing to support the UK MoD with unspcified number of EC225 under military registration and to replace aging HC-1 puma's and HC-4 Seakings.
this had been stated during the farnborugh Airshow in July.
This is not new information
Pumaboy
this had been stated during the farnborugh Airshow in July.
This is not new information
Pumaboy
Nick, you forget that the RAF didn't want Merlin in the first place, we had them thrust upon us to save Westlands (again). Having said that, The Merlin has been very successful and popular in Iraq but I don't know what sort of true hot and high performance it has and whether it would be any good in Afghanistan.
The Government is finally having to face up to the fact that they have been told we need more Support Helicopters (this has been an issue for over 20 years). e shortfall is partly due to the amount of defence budget spent on Apache and Typhoon, one of which is a useful battlefield weapon and the other a european white elephant with no war role (when was the last dogfight again?)
As to using civilian helicopters, they will have to be used in theatre as the remaining MoD helicopters (mostly Sea Kings) do not have the performance to operate there. Quite what will happen regarding defensive aids suites for these helis I don't know and crewing them will be an issue as a a load of type conversions for mil pilots will take a. time and b. loads of extra money. If a civilian contaractor is willing to take the risks then I suspect we will see civ aircraft and crews there.
The Government is finally having to face up to the fact that they have been told we need more Support Helicopters (this has been an issue for over 20 years). e shortfall is partly due to the amount of defence budget spent on Apache and Typhoon, one of which is a useful battlefield weapon and the other a european white elephant with no war role (when was the last dogfight again?)
As to using civilian helicopters, they will have to be used in theatre as the remaining MoD helicopters (mostly Sea Kings) do not have the performance to operate there. Quite what will happen regarding defensive aids suites for these helis I don't know and crewing them will be an issue as a a load of type conversions for mil pilots will take a. time and b. loads of extra money. If a civilian contaractor is willing to take the risks then I suspect we will see civ aircraft and crews there.
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I was myself asked not long ago if I would personally consider a flying contract out there. I declined. Good luck to those willing to go.
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Ex Jungly & Puma SH Pilots
It appears that the search continues, in central London at least, for recent ex-service and current twin-engine SH drivers to take up work in the more exciting regions of the Middle East. The rumour that these civilian birds will be fitted with Mil equivalent Defensive Aids Suites is gratifying as it proves we must have enough DAS to go around. Meanwhile, try this link for an example of what the 'chin's' consider as routine business around Now Zad and what the Corps is doing having landed.
The advance party of Marines, from K Company, 42 Commando, was flown into the district centre of Now Zad, in northern Helmand Province, by CH-47 Chinook helicopters.
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sox6,
The H-92 as is outlifts the EH-101 at every atmosphere and altitude, and carries the load farther. However, neither is particularly suited to 11000 ft DA's. At that altitude, the UH-60M outlifts both, and the CH-47 creams them.
The H-92 as is outlifts the EH-101 at every atmosphere and altitude, and carries the load farther. However, neither is particularly suited to 11000 ft DA's. At that altitude, the UH-60M outlifts both, and the CH-47 creams them.
Shortage of Britiish Helicopters in Afghanistan
However, with the shortage of helicopters still a problem, most movement is by road and Brig Carleton-Smith warned that British forces must prepare for an increasingly Iraq-style insurgency as the Taliban modified its tactics from pitched battles to ambushes and roadside bombs.
Last edited by SASless; 2nd Jun 2008 at 13:46.
Be carefull Nick
, your president is going to fly one of those, and Bell is part of the team.
Nick,
I have no idea about H92 or 101, however I am interested to know what type of increase you are talking about. Can the H92 carry two Jetranger loads at those heights (which is still Naff all) or provide a substantial increase over the 101?
More Chinooks would be great but I understand that UH60M is not in service as yet and therefore not a 'now' solution.
Cheers,
DO.
I have no idea about H92 or 101, however I am interested to know what type of increase you are talking about. Can the H92 carry two Jetranger loads at those heights (which is still Naff all) or provide a substantial increase over the 101?
More Chinooks would be great but I understand that UH60M is not in service as yet and therefore not a 'now' solution.
Cheers,
DO.
