The Nr Fairy

All :

I'm taking an R44, with instructor, and two pax, over London next Saturday to see the sights, UK February weather permitting.

I've been leafing through the AIP and can't find anything official about the heli lanes. There's the CAA chart, which I'll peruse beforehand, and the instructor, who's done this sort of thing before, but that's it as far as I can see.

Two Q's arise. First, is there any source of info which is even remotely official ( I don't have a Pooley's or similar ) ? In Australia, the ERSA gives detailed info on the heliroutes around Sydney Harbour. Secondly, does this give official carte blanche to those inclined to blat up the heli lanes around London with no prior experience or information ? Doesn't sound too clever to me . . .

gokel

In Spain Itīs illegal flying over cities unless for twins heloīs. And you need an special autorization to do so.

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hoverbover

Nr Fairey
Heli Routes through London are pretty well explained/shown on the Helicopter Routes in the London Control Zone Chart.ie Min/Max heights. single/twin routes etc.And which routes may/may not be available due to Heathrow etc.

However the Pages (599 thru 612 I think)in Pooleys are almost a must if you haven't been through before these explain entry procedures into the London CTR and limitations on weather/vis etc.

They are usually helpful but expect you to be very accurate in your flying and when you have looked at the chart you'll realise why!

It also gets busy, As you are doing it with the instructor who has prior experience it shouldn't be a problem,but I wouldn't attempt it on my own for the first time(Being myself only a few hundred hour novice when it comes to the art of rotary wing flying)You'll be surprised how difficult it is to follow the chart on certain routes and the landmarks to fly to/from are also important to find to give you your route.

Im sure more experinced heli routers would have more to add, these are just my experiences.

Regards
hoverbover

PS
This is my first posting hope it works OK.

Fortyodd

Nr Fairy,
E-mail on it's way.

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Whilst all reasonable care has been taken, this product may contain traces of nuts.......

A109

Please don't fly around without at least a Pooleys it is, along with a relevant chart, the very minimum that a GA helicopter pilot ought to have with them in the cockpit. One of the many things that stops people blatting in to the Heathrow Zone, which is after all category A Airspace, without experience is the fact that the Special VFR position at Heathrow can see if you are within 25 yards of the blue line on the routes map and while they will be very understanding over minor transgressions will, if pushed, rightly tell you to turn towards the nearest boarder of the Zone and push off out of their airspace. To save any embarrassment like that, please study the Pooleys pages, carry the routes map and adhere strictly to the heights thereon. I even put the waypoints in a route on the GPS in case I suddenly need to use a route which I haven't used for a long while. This will help all the poor sods living under the routes as well as all the helicopter pilots who hope to have an industry in the future. There is a dreadful American saying " Fly Neighbourly" Of course, we prefer "Fly In A Neighbourly Fashion" but the idea is the same and knowing the routes well is part of that.

eden

It is very true to say that the routes are very closely monitored by Mr SVFR at Heathrow, it is IMPERATIVE that you are fully briefed by both the Instructor and yourself on the procedures. Pooleys is good and is an essential item in the prep' for entering the routes along with a current map. If as you say this is your first time, I suggest you either do the map work or fly, sharing the workload with ya instructor. If you try and do both first time, you aren't going to get much from it other than mayhem and a snide comment from ATC or worse.

Another little tip is if it is your first time in the routes give the SVFR controller at Heathrow a phone call and tell him your intended route. Ask him questions - if you aren't sure about the procedures you've read. He won't give you special treatment but he will take you seriously and you will have at least cleared up any confusion from the horses mouth.

Use GPS if you have it - but DON'T rely on it .....back it up with some approx timing marks on the 1:50,000 and 1:250,000 (for the big picture) - it will all help to give you that feeling of staying ahead of the game.

Excuse me if I'm stating the bleedin' obvious and I'm sure other pilots will feel differently, but this is how I might approach my first time all over again.

You'll be busy - but you're pax will get a great view of 'The Smoke'.

Floppy Link

Got to agree about accuracy - fly the route exactly as shown on the chart. That's why it's a 50,000 chart.
Got a rollocking from radar once for being about 200 m off the lane!
But the views are well worth the effort.
F L

Flying Lawyer

I agree with all that's been said about thorough pre-flight planning, and accurate flying.

I pass on 3 useful tips given to me:

(1) Your first radio call.
This is very important; try to sound as professional as possible. Prepare what you need to say and be ready to read back the clearance accurately.
You can anticipate the likely clearance, but watch for variations. eg You might not be cleared (at that stage) for the entire route you've requested.
Your first call will reveal whether or not you know what you are doing. If you appear to be struggling at the first 'hurdle' you may find yourself being made to hold for a (suspiciously) long time!

(2) Check Heathrow ATIS for runway info before you call Heathrow Radar.
H3 is usually closed if the Easterly runways are being used, and restricted if Rwy 23 is in use.
If your route home is along H3, be prepared to request (and fly) an alternative route in case the runways change whilst you are airborne.

(3) Rule 5
Remember SVFR does not absolve you from complying with Rule 5. eg The London Eye (on H4) is 464' amsl!


The London controllers are very professional and, provided your flying is equally professional, you'll enjoy wonderful views of London.

The Heathrow crossing (H9) is a spectacular experience, low level across the airport, but IMHO should not be attempted unless you are with someone who's familiar with the route and the holding points.

Enjoy your flight!

Multp

Details of SVFR clearances in the LHR CTZ can be found in the AIP AD Section, London Heathrow, page refs AD2-EGLL-1-24 through to -1-32. There's an A4 size chart on page -3-2.
BTW, if you have the AIP CD-Rom it's slightly easier to search than leafing through the massive books and you can do yourself a print out.
Agree with all the previous comments. Enjoy!

Hoverman

Flying Lawyer
If I can borrow (and adapt) a recent post of yours on another topic:
"It's bad enough non-professionals giving advice, but getting it right is going too far!"
Sound, practical advice.

Nr Fairy
A slight note of caution.
F/L is obviously familiar with the Heathrow crossing.
You shouldn't even consider attempting it unless you are with someone like him, or an instructor who knows the crossing well - and not all instructors do.
IMHO the Heathrow crossing is the one part of the routes which should not be attempted just by looking at the charts and Pooley's. Heathrow Tower contollers have a phenomenally high workload and understandably expect you to react quickly and accurately to their instructions.
We face ever increasing restrictions, and we dread the thought of a PPL being thrown by the pressure and screwing things up. It wouldn't take much for the powers that be to decide that the crossing should be closed - one airliner being required to overshoot because of a PPL misunderstanding an instruction would probably do it!

I'm not getting at PPLs, just being practical.

[This message has been edited by Hoverman (edited 06 February 2001).]

ANOrak

Nr Fairy,

Good luck on Saturday and I hope you and your passengers enjoy the flight. There has to be a first time!

Two items of advice: Firstly fly at max route altitude at all times because it reduces the chances of upsetting the townies below. Secondly, if things go a bit wrong and you are losing the plot, tell ATC and ask the controller to put you back on the route. If he is worth his salt, and most of them are, he will be only too pleased to assist. They get hacked off with those who are too arogant (or stupid) to ask.

Hoverman

Forgot to say congratulations for starting a thread which hasn't turned into an anti-Robinson debate - although saying you were doing the trip in an R44 was tempting fate!

Rotorheads at its best. A PPL asks a question, and gets helped by professionals and a more experienced PPL.
It's good to see the forum back on track after some turbulence which now seems to have subsided - for ever, I hope.


[This message has been edited by Hoverman (edited 07 February 2001).]

EESDL

Here, Here!
Pooley's doesn't cover everything, view the AIP as already suggested. Try and get a copy of the Military HLS book (useful info re Heli-lanes and Heathrow in particular).
Enjoy your flight
I'm not due out of hibernation until March:-(

[email protected]

Once you've done it a few times and got the routes sorted, get yourself in a twin and try it at night. On a good night it makes the day stuff look rather routine and the LHR crossing is much easier because their traffic volume is much lower. H3 is easy at night cos you fly from dark bit to dark bit but H10 is a bit of a bugger!
Enjoy the trip and make full use of all the very good advice that has been posted.

The Nr Fairy

The pertinent and non-personal parts of Forty-odd's email concerned changes to H10 now following the new line of the A40, the fact that after 12:30 City CTR is closed, which makes things slightly easier, and a recommendation to buy my own copy of Pooleys !! All the above is in the public domain, it's just that a kind person wanted to make my life a bit easier.

Also, as other people have mentioned, if you know of ( or are provided by a kind PPRuNer ) a contact to get a copy of the Military HLS guide apparently there's a very good brief in it about the heli-lanes. My blagged copy is waiting for me at home !!

The Nr Fairy

For those of you in Southern England this weekend, it should come as no surprise that I got weathered off my trip. Sunday would have been doable, if it wasn't for passengers !!

For future reference, though, this is what I've collated from the thread. Note none of it is from personal experience, it's all from the posts made and info read.

1. First timer heli-laners ( or even guys who've done it before but haven't done the LHR crossing ) should do it with an experienced pilot who knows the wrinkles - in my case this would have been an instructor who's done it several times before.

2. Get a Pooleys, Military HLS guide, or the relevant pages from the EGLL AIP pages, AD2-EGLL-1-24 through to -1-32 with an A4 size chart on page -3-2. Read them, digest them, then ask your instructor questions.

3. Get relevant charts ( edition 9 of the heli-lanes chart is current as I write ) and the 1/4-mill of Southern England for the approaches.

4. Check LHR ATIS before arrival - if the 09 runways are in use, H3 will probably be closed, and if 23 is in use, then use of H3 may be restricted. You'll need to give an ETA for the CTR boundary, so timing marks on the charts will help here.

5. On first call, include your preferred routing, but expect something different if the controllers know something you don't.

6. Fly the routes as shown on the map ( deviation is allowed in this game, but not hesitation, for opposite direction traffic ) and keep rule 5(1)(e) - the 500' rule - in mind. If possible, fly at max route altitude.

7. If you're losing the plot tell ATC - they'll help you if you admit it, and will chuck you out of the CTR if you cause them problems.

All I have to do now is wait for the right weather. Unless of course there's a twin pilot out there who can find a spare right hand seat sometime - I'd love to see it at night but twins are out of my budget at the moment !!

[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 12 February 2001).]

Pac Rotors

Sydney, Australia has put into place a very efficent lane system that seems to work well and allows all to get to various points with the least amount of hassle and inconvenience. Any comments from those that have used it would be appreciated.

The Nr Fairy

I actually converted to helicopters when I was working in Sydney for a year. For those who've not done it, if you imagine a trip from Bankstown airport, in the west of Sydney, north to the Paramatta river ( which is the official name for the river which ends up in Sydney Harbour ), then you fly at 500' from Ryde bridges, eastbound to the southern pylon of the Harbour Bridge, then climb to 1000' over the outer part of the harbour. That's to keep underneath the departures and arrivals from Sydney International ( Kingsford Smith ).

You speak to Bankstown on the way out, then change to the R405 assigned frequency and make blind calls to let other users know what's going on. You keep right ( as standard ) of the centreline of the river, clear of the houses on the land, and it's a really impressive trip. It's helicopters only between the bridges at 500'.

To exit the Sydney area northbound, and to enter southbound, there are also lanes of entry and exit, defined by lights on buildings which are visible from the air, with defined heights and frequencies. You only talk to a controller when in range of Bankstown.

There are also defined helicopter entry routes to Sydney international, dependent on the runway in use, but I never went that way.

Now the harbour trip is great fun, and it also works because people stick to it. I suspect the reason it isn't set up like that in the UK is that there's a tad more paranoia about the consequences.

Hoverman

The Nr Fairey raises an interesting issue.
There is paranoia about being prosecuted for some infringement of the Regs. But, it's justified - just because we're paranoid doesn't mean the CAA Enforcement Branch doesn't exist!
What is it that makes people in the UK look for a reason to complain if they see a helicopter at close range? Americans don't rush to phone the police if they see a helicopter passing their window.
ANOrak advised flying at maximum permitted altitude on the routes to avoid complaints. Very good advice. Why do Brits complain so quickly?
Is it the green-eyed monster?

ANOrak

Hoverman, you make a very good point yourself but this should not be under this topic. May I suggest that you start a new one because there is plenty more to say?

The British Helicopter Advisory Board has a Members' Day on 27th February which is to be attended by several representitives of the CAA (allegedly). It would be a good opportunity to ask their views.