Parachuting in E airspace
Mostly Harmless
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Parachuting in E airspace
What sort of service do your ATC provide to Parachute jump aircraft in E airspace over there? From 27NOV we will just be passing traffic on IFR or known VFR when they call, and they won't have to call until they're ready to drop. Is this the way it works over there?
Most major cities over here have jump zones that conflict with IFR routes, does this happen much over there?
How would your average airline pilot react to a broadcast that half a dozen meat bombs were about to be released above him?
Most major cities over here have jump zones that conflict with IFR routes, does this happen much over there?
How would your average airline pilot react to a broadcast that half a dozen meat bombs were about to be released above him?
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Over here, they way it is supposed to work, is to call up the ATC facility with jurisdiction of the class E at least 5 minutes prior to drop if the ATC unit is familiar with paradrop activity at the airport where you are dropping the jumpers. The ATC unit then requests (usually) a "one-minute prior to drop" radio call. They issue traffic information service if traffic exists within 5 or so miles of the airport, or else reports "no traffic" then makes a general broadcast to all aircraft that paradrops are about to occur over XYZ airport.
What I usually do, is once I climb through 2,000 feet, switch over to approach control and then start asking for traffic information service. 20 minutes in the climb is a long time to be pointed nose high at the sky being blind at the 12 o'clock position. Once identified, traffic information service helps keep myself and IFR traffic seperated as well as seperation from uncontrolled VFR targets.
As for IFR routes, yes, we have a VOR airway within 4 miles of the airport where I deliver skydivers. Most of the time, the ATC unit clears IFR traffic to cross a certain VOR (20 miles from our drop zone) at or above 11,000' for a STAR. Most turboprops drop down to 11,000 and level off for quite some time, which sometimes interferes with our drop zone, since we drop from 10,500'. ATC tells us in this case to climb no higher than 10,500', so that 500 feet of seperation in visual conditions is obtainable.
>How would your average airline pilot react to a broadcast that >half a dozen meat bombs were about to be released above him?
None have flown directly under me yet, however, I have had a Citation jet cruise directly over the dropzone target at 2,000', uncontrolled VFR, not talking on the airport unicom frequency and ATC knew nothing about him other than groundspeed and direction of flight. Hopefully, the jump aircraft contacts ATC as soon as possible and remains on frequency for traffic information service. This way, both ATC and the jump pilot are able to obtain situational awareness about traffic approaching the area and that a paradrop is to take place.
Hope this reveals some information for you karrank,
Gear down props forward
What I usually do, is once I climb through 2,000 feet, switch over to approach control and then start asking for traffic information service. 20 minutes in the climb is a long time to be pointed nose high at the sky being blind at the 12 o'clock position. Once identified, traffic information service helps keep myself and IFR traffic seperated as well as seperation from uncontrolled VFR targets.
As for IFR routes, yes, we have a VOR airway within 4 miles of the airport where I deliver skydivers. Most of the time, the ATC unit clears IFR traffic to cross a certain VOR (20 miles from our drop zone) at or above 11,000' for a STAR. Most turboprops drop down to 11,000 and level off for quite some time, which sometimes interferes with our drop zone, since we drop from 10,500'. ATC tells us in this case to climb no higher than 10,500', so that 500 feet of seperation in visual conditions is obtainable.
>How would your average airline pilot react to a broadcast that >half a dozen meat bombs were about to be released above him?
None have flown directly under me yet, however, I have had a Citation jet cruise directly over the dropzone target at 2,000', uncontrolled VFR, not talking on the airport unicom frequency and ATC knew nothing about him other than groundspeed and direction of flight. Hopefully, the jump aircraft contacts ATC as soon as possible and remains on frequency for traffic information service. This way, both ATC and the jump pilot are able to obtain situational awareness about traffic approaching the area and that a paradrop is to take place.
Hope this reveals some information for you karrank,
Gear down props forward
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karrank,
At FWA we work multiple parachute operations at several of our satelite airports. All the operators give us a call airborne letting us know what altitude that they are climbing to. We ask for a one minute warning prior to kicking them out the door.
At the one minute prior to jump warning we check for any traffic (IFR or VFR) and advise if they are or appear to be a factor, we also keep any overflights clear during the jump.
The majority of the time we have a good working relationship with the jump plane pilots, we try to visit them or have them visit us so that we can discuss their operations so that we can avoid any potential problems.
Mike
At FWA we work multiple parachute operations at several of our satelite airports. All the operators give us a call airborne letting us know what altitude that they are climbing to. We ask for a one minute warning prior to kicking them out the door.
At the one minute prior to jump warning we check for any traffic (IFR or VFR) and advise if they are or appear to be a factor, we also keep any overflights clear during the jump.
The majority of the time we have a good working relationship with the jump plane pilots, we try to visit them or have them visit us so that we can discuss their operations so that we can avoid any potential problems.
Mike
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Thanks for your replies, it would appear your ATC handle these operations differently to how it's being sold here. E airspace is being sold here as being completely unrestricted to VFR aircraft.
All around the country there are jump zones that conflict with arriving/departing jets that now recieve a separation service in C airspace. From next month that airspace becomes E and they can do what they like and we have the options of passing traffic or moving the jets. Being able to regulate the movements of the jumpers is being denied to us, supposedly because we are adopting your airspace system, yet we are doing this differently???
All around the country there are jump zones that conflict with arriving/departing jets that now recieve a separation service in C airspace. From next month that airspace becomes E and they can do what they like and we have the options of passing traffic or moving the jets. Being able to regulate the movements of the jumpers is being denied to us, supposedly because we are adopting your airspace system, yet we are doing this differently???
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Class E in most of the U.S. begins around 1200' AGL. Yes, it is deemed "other controlled airspace," and VFR flight is permitted in the Class E up to 17,999' MSL. It is very similar to the ICAO definition of class E in that: IFR traffic is separated from other IFR traffic and participating VFR traffic can receive traffic information service, if they want the service. It is not mandatory to talk to ATC when VFR in class E...including uncontrolled VFR at night.
The regulations stress SAFETY and the safest way to conduct paradrop activity is to NOT cause a hazard to other aircraft or property on the surface by dropping jumpers through other air traffic.
As any jump pilot should have read the parachuting regulations (part 105 of the Federal Aviation Regulations here in the U.S.), he or she would be knowledgable that parachuting activity is permitted in all of the U.S. airspaces (class A, B, C, D, E & G), with the proper paperwork if necessary. I believe the majority of jump activity takes place in E and G since there is a considerable amount of paperwork to obtain for controlled airspace (A, B, C and D) jump authorizations. I had to obtain an authorization to conduct jump activity in Tampa, Florida's Class B and it was similar to pulling teeth. Class A--yes, they go that high, as for instance, a 727 has been modified to take jumpers to 23,000'. I hear it is around $150 to jump from the 727 when it is available. 180 jumper capacity. They dive out through the rear airstairs.
One item in the part 105 regulations (105.25) is that if jump activity is to take place in controlled airspace (A, B, C, D or E), a pilot MUST contact ATC to receive traffic information service. Class G airspace is uncontrolled, so no ATC radio communication is necessary. A written or telephone notification is necessary for all jump activity, including class G.
Part 105: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...cfr105_03.html
As for Australia, I hear there are enough regulations to confuse even the best of pilots. I am not saying that the pilots down under need more regulations, however, if I was in that situation where the Class C was being redesigned as Class E, and I would no longer be given separation services, I would at the least contact ATC and request traffic information service so that I would not drop my jumpers directly above or in the path of controlled or uncontrolled traffic directly below. This would be the safest option to exercise.
The regulations stress SAFETY and the safest way to conduct paradrop activity is to NOT cause a hazard to other aircraft or property on the surface by dropping jumpers through other air traffic.
As any jump pilot should have read the parachuting regulations (part 105 of the Federal Aviation Regulations here in the U.S.), he or she would be knowledgable that parachuting activity is permitted in all of the U.S. airspaces (class A, B, C, D, E & G), with the proper paperwork if necessary. I believe the majority of jump activity takes place in E and G since there is a considerable amount of paperwork to obtain for controlled airspace (A, B, C and D) jump authorizations. I had to obtain an authorization to conduct jump activity in Tampa, Florida's Class B and it was similar to pulling teeth. Class A--yes, they go that high, as for instance, a 727 has been modified to take jumpers to 23,000'. I hear it is around $150 to jump from the 727 when it is available. 180 jumper capacity. They dive out through the rear airstairs.
One item in the part 105 regulations (105.25) is that if jump activity is to take place in controlled airspace (A, B, C, D or E), a pilot MUST contact ATC to receive traffic information service. Class G airspace is uncontrolled, so no ATC radio communication is necessary. A written or telephone notification is necessary for all jump activity, including class G.
Part 105: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...cfr105_03.html
As for Australia, I hear there are enough regulations to confuse even the best of pilots. I am not saying that the pilots down under need more regulations, however, if I was in that situation where the Class C was being redesigned as Class E, and I would no longer be given separation services, I would at the least contact ATC and request traffic information service so that I would not drop my jumpers directly above or in the path of controlled or uncontrolled traffic directly below. This would be the safest option to exercise.
