Sir Jock impresses the press!!
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Sir Jock impresses the press!!
Sir Jock's a blunt weapon | Mail Online
With a name which might have been invented by Jilly Cooper for a sexmad master of foxhounds, our Chief of Defence Staff, Sir Jock Stirrup, is something of a disappointment in the flesh.
Discreet, grey, cautious - and never likely to rock the boat like his subordinate, Chief of the General Staff Sir Richard Dannatt - Sir Jock appeared on breakfast TV yesterday to utter a string of comforting platitudes about our Armed Forces.
Afghanistan is merely a matter of training locals to do their own fighting and that's going well, he says, although 'the international community' will be there for years.
This makes it sounds as we're all in it together, and equally. But Britain contributes far more than every other ally except America. Some of the ' international community' there won't expose themselves to battle at all.
Overstretched? Our Army is under pressure but it's manageable, he says. Soldiers' pay is poor but that issue is being addressed. The same goes for living quarters. Morale? A recent report said it was rock bottom. Sir Jock points out their high level of job satisfaction. He oozed contentment.
I wonder if he read James Fergusson's sobering account - published in Saturday's Mail - about what our foes in Afghanistan, the Taliban, are really like? They're not fuzzy-wuzzy amateurs in sandals but tough, courageous soldiers fighting impossible odds.
Fergusson met Commander Abdullah, who has two sons aged four and two. He does not give them 'a father's love' he says, 'because when I am killed, it will be much harder for them.
'My father, my grandfather and my great-grandfather all died by the bullet. I will die the same way, and no doubt my sons, too. It is not so sad. It is glorious to be martyred. To die in the service of the jihad is the ambition of all of us here.'
Over the weekend, I watched on TV The Day Of The Kamikaze, a documentary about Japan's suicide pilots in 1945. Most of us have been brought up to believe they were demented automatons brainwashed by their superiors into flying bomb-laden planes into Allied warships.
But they were not so different from our own wartime servicemen and women then who thought dying in the service of their country was a noble sacrifice. Kamikaze was the last throw of the dice when Japan was faced with massively superior enemy naval forces from the U.S. and Britain assembling off her coast.
The Taliban have suicide bombers, too. And their conventional attacks on U.S. and British forces are near suicidal because we can call in jet bombers, Apache gunships or deadly, missilefiring unmanned drones.
Locals say that when one American is hit, whole villages are razed to the ground by U.S. bombers. Last week, 49 people, mainly women and children, were killed on their way to a wedding.
Commander Abdullah told Fergusson that if it wasn't for the 'air support' on which we and the U.S. rely, 'we could take the country in a single day. What we need are missiles to shoot them down. But, insha'allah (God willing) we will get these very soon'.
What a bloody mess. We ought to hear more from our own commanders in theatre and less from Whitehall warriors like Sir Jock Stirrup and his predecessor, Sir Mike Jackson. We won't, though. They got to the top by playing footsie with the politicians. Yesterday's complacent performance by Sir Jock was a blinder.
With a name which might have been invented by Jilly Cooper for a sexmad master of foxhounds, our Chief of Defence Staff, Sir Jock Stirrup, is something of a disappointment in the flesh.
Discreet, grey, cautious - and never likely to rock the boat like his subordinate, Chief of the General Staff Sir Richard Dannatt - Sir Jock appeared on breakfast TV yesterday to utter a string of comforting platitudes about our Armed Forces.
Afghanistan is merely a matter of training locals to do their own fighting and that's going well, he says, although 'the international community' will be there for years.
This makes it sounds as we're all in it together, and equally. But Britain contributes far more than every other ally except America. Some of the ' international community' there won't expose themselves to battle at all.
Overstretched? Our Army is under pressure but it's manageable, he says. Soldiers' pay is poor but that issue is being addressed. The same goes for living quarters. Morale? A recent report said it was rock bottom. Sir Jock points out their high level of job satisfaction. He oozed contentment.
I wonder if he read James Fergusson's sobering account - published in Saturday's Mail - about what our foes in Afghanistan, the Taliban, are really like? They're not fuzzy-wuzzy amateurs in sandals but tough, courageous soldiers fighting impossible odds.
Fergusson met Commander Abdullah, who has two sons aged four and two. He does not give them 'a father's love' he says, 'because when I am killed, it will be much harder for them.
'My father, my grandfather and my great-grandfather all died by the bullet. I will die the same way, and no doubt my sons, too. It is not so sad. It is glorious to be martyred. To die in the service of the jihad is the ambition of all of us here.'
Over the weekend, I watched on TV The Day Of The Kamikaze, a documentary about Japan's suicide pilots in 1945. Most of us have been brought up to believe they were demented automatons brainwashed by their superiors into flying bomb-laden planes into Allied warships.
But they were not so different from our own wartime servicemen and women then who thought dying in the service of their country was a noble sacrifice. Kamikaze was the last throw of the dice when Japan was faced with massively superior enemy naval forces from the U.S. and Britain assembling off her coast.
The Taliban have suicide bombers, too. And their conventional attacks on U.S. and British forces are near suicidal because we can call in jet bombers, Apache gunships or deadly, missilefiring unmanned drones.
Locals say that when one American is hit, whole villages are razed to the ground by U.S. bombers. Last week, 49 people, mainly women and children, were killed on their way to a wedding.
Commander Abdullah told Fergusson that if it wasn't for the 'air support' on which we and the U.S. rely, 'we could take the country in a single day. What we need are missiles to shoot them down. But, insha'allah (God willing) we will get these very soon'.
What a bloody mess. We ought to hear more from our own commanders in theatre and less from Whitehall warriors like Sir Jock Stirrup and his predecessor, Sir Mike Jackson. We won't, though. They got to the top by playing footsie with the politicians. Yesterday's complacent performance by Sir Jock was a blinder.
Life in the Big House is infinity more complex than it appears to those on the outside. If one of the Service chiefs speaks out of time/tune, the Service he represents can suffer. What if Sir Jock had spoken out with one view of how life is in the Services - there are approximately 196,000 views of how life in the Service - what good would it have done? It would have been ruthlessly exploited by HMT, potential recruits would have thought twice (as they have since Sir Richard has spoken out) and political trust, believe or not necessary, would have been broken. Think again?
If one of the Service chiefs speaks out of time/tune, the Service he represents can suffer.
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WhenURhappy,
I can only presume you live in the land of comfy chairs & plasma screens, rather than putting your arse on the line, ill-equipped with poor transport be it by land or - lacking - by air.
" Politcal decisions are important " yes fine if you say so, I seem to remember Thatcher was all for selling HMS Invicible until the external threat of the Argentinians saved her arse - and meanwhile we have to rely on the U.S. for years as the FA2 has been prematurley retired...
For the foreseable future our guys are in deep trouble, doing their best with poor equipment - I'd happilly join them if only as a tech' photographer as I used to be ( and then a lot more use than you I suspect - PM me and discuss, I'd be delighted to be proved wrong ! ) - / anything if I wasn't more of a hindrance than help, what are you doing in Whitehall ?!
I can only presume you live in the land of comfy chairs & plasma screens, rather than putting your arse on the line, ill-equipped with poor transport be it by land or - lacking - by air.
" Politcal decisions are important " yes fine if you say so, I seem to remember Thatcher was all for selling HMS Invicible until the external threat of the Argentinians saved her arse - and meanwhile we have to rely on the U.S. for years as the FA2 has been prematurley retired...
For the foreseable future our guys are in deep trouble, doing their best with poor equipment - I'd happilly join them if only as a tech' photographer as I used to be ( and then a lot more use than you I suspect - PM me and discuss, I'd be delighted to be proved wrong ! ) - / anything if I wasn't more of a hindrance than help, what are you doing in Whitehall ?!
Last edited by Double Zero; 14th Jul 2008 at 20:33.
Yes, I do work in London, and along with most of my colleagues, I have been involved in most conflicts that HMG has committed us to since 1990. I am neither ignorant nor ill-informed as to the state of our forces; I am simply stating that little would be gained by exposing our frailities to all and sundry and engaging in a Red Top (let alone Broadsheet) debate. Moreover, we are behoven to the Government in power, in spite our our awoved allegiance to HM the Queen.
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I don't bother with any 'red top' newspapers as I presume you're reffering to - I take several broadsheets but my favourite is the Telegraph for its' sense of humour.
As for the 'Queen & Country' bit, well I'm as patriotic as anyone, but I suspect I'd rather take a bullet for a poorly paid serviceman with a family to support...
As for the 'Queen & Country' bit, well I'm as patriotic as anyone, but I suspect I'd rather take a bullet for a poorly paid serviceman with a family to support...
I suspect that a significant percentage (if not the majority) of the SO2s and SO1s (and a fair smattering of Gp Capt equivalents) in MOD have recent operational experience and most, if not all, use this to good advantage in informing their work and preparing briefs for Directors and sSCs. For example, the Equipment Capability areas would be bereft if it were not for operational experience of its staffs, bearing in mind that the MOD is a strategic, not operational, HQ.
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OK,
So I and a lot of others are left wondering ' what does that mean in English ?! '
I worked on test ranges with fast jets, and can say exactly what did & didn't work, including the special forces trying ( and often succeeding ) in spoiling our day.
I suspect I'm not alone in thinking Whitehall is relatively safe ( apart from other threats which do not belong here ) while people at least as good as you & me are risking their lives regularly in open Landrovers etc.. not a 'red top' comment, just sheer common sense - how do you fancy it, I'll be happy - if that's the right term - to sit alongside you - I'll take some advice from the pro's and drive though !
DZ
So I and a lot of others are left wondering ' what does that mean in English ?! '
I worked on test ranges with fast jets, and can say exactly what did & didn't work, including the special forces trying ( and often succeeding ) in spoiling our day.
I suspect I'm not alone in thinking Whitehall is relatively safe ( apart from other threats which do not belong here ) while people at least as good as you & me are risking their lives regularly in open Landrovers etc.. not a 'red top' comment, just sheer common sense - how do you fancy it, I'll be happy - if that's the right term - to sit alongside you - I'll take some advice from the pro's and drive though !
DZ
Last edited by Double Zero; 14th Jul 2008 at 21:02.
What if Sir Jock had spoken out with one view of how life is in the Services - there are approximately 196,000 views of how life in the Service - what good would it have done?
Life in the Big House is infinity more complex than it appears to those on the outside.
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Chugalug2
what with your observation, let alone my previous discussion with someone who seems keen on a knighthood ( I've thought that more of an insult than a compliment since about 190 AD )
I despair, the most misused phrase in English Language has to be 'Common Sense'...
what with your observation, let alone my previous discussion with someone who seems keen on a knighthood ( I've thought that more of an insult than a compliment since about 190 AD )
I despair, the most misused phrase in English Language has to be 'Common Sense'...
DZ, my abiding impression of the RAF, past, present and future, is that it effectively exists at unit and station level only. That is where its work is done, that is where its commanders are. Above that level it is a bureaucracy manned by apparatchiks, be they SOs or Air Officers. They do not command they manage, despite their grandiose titles. As wuh says himself, their job is to do the bidding of their masters, the politicians. With titles like CinC etc you'd think that their job was to look after their subordinates, and ensure that they are properly provided for, but it seems that is not so. Common sense, DZ? You're having a laugh aren't you?
"Angels and ministers of grace defend us.
Be thou a spirit of health, or goblin damned,
Bring with thee airs from heaven, or blasts from hell,
Be thy intents wicked, or charitable,
Thou com'st in such a questionable shape,
That I will speak to thee."
William Shakespeare - Hamlet
Be thou a spirit of health, or goblin damned,
Bring with thee airs from heaven, or blasts from hell,
Be thy intents wicked, or charitable,
Thou com'st in such a questionable shape,
That I will speak to thee."
William Shakespeare - Hamlet
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Chugalug2 , you have my understanding & sympathies !
If I or anyone can send anything to help ( I'm afraid a Chinook is a bit beyond my means ) please let us know through the approiate channels,or if as I suspect they don't do the job put it on here !
If I or anyone can send anything to help ( I'm afraid a Chinook is a bit beyond my means ) please let us know through the approiate channels,or if as I suspect they don't do the job put it on here !
Last edited by Double Zero; 14th Jul 2008 at 22:20.
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Well i watched a film tonight , Kite flyers or something about Afghan kids , although it is a film it kind of gave me a new perspective of our war on the Taliban. All the time we all self think about our way of life and how good we have things , we take much for granted and out forces and coalitian help so much and unfortunately at huge huge costs. Our powers above have decided we are in this fight so that is clear , give us some more tools and cash and the job will get done. Taliban are screwed if the UK government gets its act together and brings the military together. My only worry is this people who run this country are not going to provide this and I think that will be the downfall of our current leaders.
I accept that working in MOD is safer, say, than working at the COB or in Helmand (and I haven't claimed otherwise!) but do not assume that those who work in London don't know what it's like on operations; as I have previously pointed out, a significant percentage of the officers here (and it is predominatly officers in MOD) have been on recent high-intensity operations. And me hoping for a K? You are having a laugh....
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KIT
The film is the called The Kite Runner but I recommend the book of the same name. Read it and you begin to appreciate the culture, passion and also the desperation of the Afghanistanis as they have been pulled all ways by the Soviets, the Taliban and the warlords since 1979.
flipster
The film is the called The Kite Runner but I recommend the book of the same name. Read it and you begin to appreciate the culture, passion and also the desperation of the Afghanistanis as they have been pulled all ways by the Soviets, the Taliban and the warlords since 1979.
flipster
Chugalug2 , you have my understanding & sympathies !
