Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
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Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
The BBC are reporting a NATO support aircraft down in southern Afganistan.
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Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
Started in order to leave other thread for condolences.
I was incensed even as the words were coming out of the mouth of Peter Wood. Before the type was confirmed I rang and lodged a complaint with the BBC and will follow it up with mail.
BBC Complaints:
Phone:
08700 100 222*
Don't bother to press any number from the recorded message, wait a few seconds and speak to a person.
Write:
BBC Complaints,
PO Box 1922,
Glasgow G2 3WT
BBC News 24, armchair expert, reporting that he has it on good authority but not yet confirmed, as to the aircraft type involved, mebtioning the type by name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If he is wrong then I hope he burns in hell for the grief he has just caused to those related to or friends of those flying that type in theatre.
Why can't they stick to the approved procedure and be held to task when they don't?
Thank you oldfella.
Please note the 'other' thread is also a (relevant) 'news' thread and not just for 'condolences.
I was incensed even as the words were coming out of the mouth of Peter Wood. Before the type was confirmed I rang and lodged a complaint with the BBC and will follow it up with mail.
BBC Complaints:
Phone:
08700 100 222*
Don't bother to press any number from the recorded message, wait a few seconds and speak to a person.
Write:
BBC Complaints,
PO Box 1922,
Glasgow G2 3WT
BBC News 24, armchair expert, reporting that he has it on good authority but not yet confirmed, as to the aircraft type involved, mebtioning the type by name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If he is wrong then I hope he burns in hell for the grief he has just caused to those related to or friends of those flying that type in theatre.
Why can't they stick to the approved procedure and be held to task when they don't?
Thank you oldfella.
Please note the 'other' thread is also a (relevant) 'news' thread and not just for 'condolences.
Last edited by BOAC; 3rd Sep 2006 at 09:37. Reason: Chronological adjustment
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MOD are mainly to blame for not knowing what and when, getting the Kinforming sorted now, and not pi$$ing about with a "help line". Imagine the response to a genuine query:- 'Sorry ma'am we can't tell you over the phone' Fat lot of use that's going to be. MOD, ministers, mandarins, VSO's, pull your finger out.
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The press are scum, but don't blame them for trying to find out the ac type, its their job. The alternative argument is that families of those flying other types could be worried unneccessarily. Forget these lowlife and support the families in their time of need.
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Aircraft Down In Afganistan
From the BBC News website:
14 Britons killed in Afghanistan
Fourteen British service personnel have died after their aircraft crashed in Afghanistan, the MoD has said.
Twelve RAF personnel, a Royal Marine and an Army soldier were among those who died in the crash in the southern province of Kandahar.
The aircraft, believed to be a Chinook, belonged to the Nato-led force which has been fighting the Taleban.
UK Defence Secretary Des Browne said "all indications are that this was a terrible accident".
It's a black day. It's a disaster for our soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan
Major Charles Heyman
He added: "This is dreadful and shocking news. I know that the people of Britain will join me in sending our deep condolences to the loved ones of those who have lost their lives.
"I can say, however, at this stage all the indications are that this was a terrible accident and not the result of hostile action."
'Technical fault'
An International Security Assistance Force spokesman said "enemy action had been discounted at this stage".
It is believed the cause of the crash was "a technical fault"'
Nato forces say it was supporting the Nato mission in the area.
The defence analyst, Major Charles Heyman, told BBC News 24: "It's a black day. It's a disaster for our soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan.
"No other words can describe it. It's a big hit to morale. Believe me it really does affect morale."
BBC defence correspondent, Paul Wood, told BBC News 24: "I'm getting strong guidance from a supposedly reliable defence source that it is not in fact a Hercules, we're talking about a Chinook helicopter here.
"That would make sense if they were supporting an operation, as has been reported, in a place called Panjwayi - west of Kandahar.
"It's a town - which has been in Taleban hands - which has been forced back into coalition hands by a big push, still continuing today."
The crash brings the death toll of UK forces personnel in Afghanistan to 36 since the start of operations in November 2001.
Ministry of Defence Helpline
A special helpline is available on 08457 800 900 for families concerned about relatives
The crash is thought to be the biggest single loss of British troops in Iraq or Afghanistan since military operations began there in 2001.
Ten British armed personnel were killed when a Hercules C130K crashed north-west of Baghdad in January 2005.
The latest crash comes as Afghan and Nato troops began a major anti-Taleban drive in the Panjwayi district of Kandahar which has seen months of fighting.
Earlier, Nato said its forces had launched a major offensive against known hideouts of Taleban insurgents in the Panjwayi district of Kandahar, with the aim of driving them out of the area.
There was no indication of an enemy attack on the plane, which was not a fighter jet, Maj Scott Lundy said.
Afghanistan is experiencing its bloodiest period since the fall of the Taleban in 2001. Much of the fighting has been concentrated in the south.
The plane came down about 20 km (12 miles) west of the city of Kandahar, Maj Lundy of the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) said.
It was "supporting a Nato mission. It went off the radar and crashed in an open area in Kandahar."
Nato forces are at the scene but there is no word on how many people were on board. A large Canadian contingent is based in Kandahar province.
A local tribal elder told the Associated Press news agency by phone that the wreckage of the plane was burning in an open field.
"I can see three or four helicopters in the sky, and coalition forces are also arriving in the area," he said.
On Thursday, a Dutch F-16 fighter pilot was killed after his plane crashed in the southern province of Ghazni.
Officials said the crash was believed to be an accident.
14 Britons killed in Afghanistan
Fourteen British service personnel have died after their aircraft crashed in Afghanistan, the MoD has said.
Twelve RAF personnel, a Royal Marine and an Army soldier were among those who died in the crash in the southern province of Kandahar.
The aircraft, believed to be a Chinook, belonged to the Nato-led force which has been fighting the Taleban.
UK Defence Secretary Des Browne said "all indications are that this was a terrible accident".
It's a black day. It's a disaster for our soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan
Major Charles Heyman
He added: "This is dreadful and shocking news. I know that the people of Britain will join me in sending our deep condolences to the loved ones of those who have lost their lives.
"I can say, however, at this stage all the indications are that this was a terrible accident and not the result of hostile action."
'Technical fault'
An International Security Assistance Force spokesman said "enemy action had been discounted at this stage".
It is believed the cause of the crash was "a technical fault"'
Nato forces say it was supporting the Nato mission in the area.
The defence analyst, Major Charles Heyman, told BBC News 24: "It's a black day. It's a disaster for our soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan.
"No other words can describe it. It's a big hit to morale. Believe me it really does affect morale."
BBC defence correspondent, Paul Wood, told BBC News 24: "I'm getting strong guidance from a supposedly reliable defence source that it is not in fact a Hercules, we're talking about a Chinook helicopter here.
"That would make sense if they were supporting an operation, as has been reported, in a place called Panjwayi - west of Kandahar.
"It's a town - which has been in Taleban hands - which has been forced back into coalition hands by a big push, still continuing today."
The crash brings the death toll of UK forces personnel in Afghanistan to 36 since the start of operations in November 2001.
Ministry of Defence Helpline
A special helpline is available on 08457 800 900 for families concerned about relatives
The crash is thought to be the biggest single loss of British troops in Iraq or Afghanistan since military operations began there in 2001.
Ten British armed personnel were killed when a Hercules C130K crashed north-west of Baghdad in January 2005.
The latest crash comes as Afghan and Nato troops began a major anti-Taleban drive in the Panjwayi district of Kandahar which has seen months of fighting.
Earlier, Nato said its forces had launched a major offensive against known hideouts of Taleban insurgents in the Panjwayi district of Kandahar, with the aim of driving them out of the area.
There was no indication of an enemy attack on the plane, which was not a fighter jet, Maj Scott Lundy said.
Afghanistan is experiencing its bloodiest period since the fall of the Taleban in 2001. Much of the fighting has been concentrated in the south.
The plane came down about 20 km (12 miles) west of the city of Kandahar, Maj Lundy of the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) said.
It was "supporting a Nato mission. It went off the radar and crashed in an open area in Kandahar."
Nato forces are at the scene but there is no word on how many people were on board. A large Canadian contingent is based in Kandahar province.
A local tribal elder told the Associated Press news agency by phone that the wreckage of the plane was burning in an open field.
"I can see three or four helicopters in the sky, and coalition forces are also arriving in the area," he said.
On Thursday, a Dutch F-16 fighter pilot was killed after his plane crashed in the southern province of Ghazni.
Officials said the crash was believed to be an accident.
BBC have read a statement from the MoD declaring the aircraft type as a Nimrod MR2.
The speculating @rse who was on the BBC news 24 earlier claiming it was 'pretty much certain it was a Chinook' should be taken to Odiham and laid out in front of the families he put through the wringer.
The speculating @rse who was on the BBC news 24 earlier claiming it was 'pretty much certain it was a Chinook' should be taken to Odiham and laid out in front of the families he put through the wringer.
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"BBC defence correspondent, Paul Wood, told BBC News 24: "I'm getting strong guidance from a supposedly reliable defence source that it is not in fact a Hercules, we're talking about a Chinook helicopter here. "
I don't think Paul Wood will make this mistake again. Although then again........
I don't think Paul Wood will make this mistake again. Although then again........
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BBC defence correspondent, Paul Wood, told BBC News 24: "I'm getting strong guidance from a supposedly reliable defence source that it is not in fact a Hercules, we're talking about a Chinook helicopter here."
I don't think Paul Wood will make this mistake again.
I don't think Paul Wood will make this mistake again.
If you're going to criticise the press, at least show that you know something about journalism. And then don't compound your hypocrisy by using the BBC, CNN and Sky to keep you up to date (five times in the first six posts), while bitching about the information which other people are working hard to bring to you.
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The speculating @rse who was on the BBC news 24 earlier claiming it was 'pretty much certain it was a Chinook' should be taken to Odiham and laid out in front of the families he put through the wringer.
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Utter Disgrace
At the time of this story breaking my immediate reaction was to speculate on a/c type, But NO common sense told me not to until the facts were released, the issue of the Press "only doing their job" has made my blood boil,
it is bad enough for one death from within the services let alone 14 but when it is compounded by the press first "speculating" that it could be a chinook, or a herc only goes to add to my anger, when the facts are released that it is a nimrod the press in my eyes appear to fall on a defensive shield of the "only doing my job" sketch and ultimately "GUESSING" what it "COULD" be goes to add fear into those that dont need that fear in the first place ...i.e Families of those near and dear serving in those regions...Sorry if this seems an unjust argument but in summary i feel that the media seem to have cloaks of invincibility if they get it wrong ..........TO those that SPECULATED ON AIR i hope they show a black screen or something and apologise for the unneccersary anguish caused to the Herc/ Vortex crews, if anyone from the press would care to add light or make comment feel free..
DAMN SAD DAY
it is bad enough for one death from within the services let alone 14 but when it is compounded by the press first "speculating" that it could be a chinook, or a herc only goes to add to my anger, when the facts are released that it is a nimrod the press in my eyes appear to fall on a defensive shield of the "only doing my job" sketch and ultimately "GUESSING" what it "COULD" be goes to add fear into those that dont need that fear in the first place ...i.e Families of those near and dear serving in those regions...Sorry if this seems an unjust argument but in summary i feel that the media seem to have cloaks of invincibility if they get it wrong ..........TO those that SPECULATED ON AIR i hope they show a black screen or something and apologise for the unneccersary anguish caused to the Herc/ Vortex crews, if anyone from the press would care to add light or make comment feel free..
DAMN SAD DAY
Mr Wood didn't make a mistake. He reported someone else's mistake. Blame the knob who told him it was a Chinook.
If you're going to criticise the press, at least show that you know something about journalism. And then don't compound your hypocrisy by using the BBC, CNN and Sky to keep you up to date (five times in the first six posts), while bitching about the information which other people are working hard to bring to you.
If you're going to criticise the press, at least show that you know something about journalism. And then don't compound your hypocrisy by using the BBC, CNN and Sky to keep you up to date (five times in the first six posts), while bitching about the information which other people are working hard to bring to you.
People will naturally refer to the news stories when such news breaks and link to them. To do so is not at all hypocritical, since, in good time, the news becomes clearer, and people will link back to it.
If you reflect on this for a moment, please, surely you must realise that there was absolutely no need whatsoever for Wood to inform the world that he was pretty sure that it was a Chinook (as he did on BBC World about 45 minutes ago and I gather he did the same on other BBC News outlets). If he is supposed to be an expert in the area of defence, he should've known that revealing that it was a Chinook risked causing severe distress and anxiety to all those closely associated with that fleet (and probably families who might think that their loved ones might possibly be aboard a Chinook), kinforming procedures or not.
All we can assume is that the scoop was more important to Wood than anything else, despite the fact that the information (as he effectively admitted on BBC World) might not have been correct. He should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.
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The Have Your Say section of the website is suffering from the same rubbish. Complaints are going in from here and from ARRSE. Usual left-wing hijacking of a thread, but the BBC are colluding in that they know what sort of comments will be left - and it's supposed to be a moderated board.
I think Rum Ration is closed at the weekends.
I think Rum Ration is closed at the weekends.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/make...nt_step1.shtml
Takes you to a BBC email complaints page. Page 2 states:
We publish responses to the most significant or numerous complaints here.
Complain by this means if possible. They may not consider the complaint the most significant but if it is numerous enough they will have to give a public answer.
Takes you to a BBC email complaints page. Page 2 states:
We publish responses to the most significant or numerous complaints here.
Complain by this means if possible. They may not consider the complaint the most significant but if it is numerous enough they will have to give a public answer.