Alltheway

Hi,

I'm currently completing my ATPL's and wondered if anyone knew what pass mark's the Major's set as requirements please?e

Any experience or info on this is greatly welcomed.

I appreciate some Airlines simply wish to see the "Pass certificate" but i'm more interested in the likes of Virgin/BA - Do they look at the number of sittings per exam and pass mark's.

Again, any info graciously received.

IrishJetdriver

I see you are an older applicant ( as I was). As you get older you need everything on your side. Although I don't know if carriers want to see your actual marks, providing them can be a good idea. First time IR pass is always a good one to mention (hopefully!).

Once you get noticed then the application process will give you a chance to give more details and the chance to hopefully shine in the interview/assessment/sim etc.

Don't just focus on the majors. experience at the end of the day is everything in this game. dodgy times ahead. Don't turn your back on anything. TP flying is great experience and will do you no harm at all......as long as you don't get stuck, besides, there may not be too many jet jobs left by the time you're done.

Good luck

G SXTY

Once you've got airline experience, no-one cares. Without experience, your 200hr CV looks just like all the other 200hr CVs, so airlines are quite interested in exam grades, both as a filter to cut down the number of applicants, and as an indicator of your ability to pass a type rating course.

Always remember that airlines want to minimise their training risk - faced with two similar candidates, one of whom had passed everything first time with a 90%+ average and another who'd averaged in the low eighties and had a few resits - which one would you choose?

wheelie my boeing

When I did my training (not long ago) BA wanted a minimum of 85% average in the ATPL exams, with maximum of one resit I think. However, those of us who were successful in getting a job at BA had averages of 92/93% plus, and no resits. In fact, I think only one person on my course got an average less than 90%, and all those with above 90% averages had no resits.
BA also want a first SERIES pass on your IR. Again, those of us who got in from my course had first time passes, but they say its a minimum of a first series pass.
Good luck!

G SXTY

Pretty similar at Flybe I think. Don't quote me, but 85% average in the ATPLs and a 1st series pass in the IR rings a bell.

rons22

so anyone with average mark of 82% and 2nd pass for IR shouldnt even bother applying for a job??

FL370 Officeboy

The criteria mentioned are mainly targeted at the 'recommended applicants' from the FTOs. As stated, 85% groundschool and first series passes are the normal criteria for guys being forwarded from their schools directly to the airlines (such as BE and BA).

If you are applying directly to the company than as long as you meet the criteria on the application of course you should bother!

wheelie my boeing

I am not 100% sure, but I don't believe BA will even accept your application if you have less than 85% in ATPL's. Like I said, you will be up against people who have 95% averages with first time passes in all exams including ATPL's, CPL & IR. So, I would still try if I was in that position, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Who knows, you may get lucky! But as the original question was what pass mark requirements they have, then a 1st series pass and 85% minimum is the BARE minimum just to be eligible to apply to be really honest. (That is for BA. Other airlines differ)

rons22

cool, won't waste my time then applying there. i thought they dont take fATPL anyway unless they are recommended by cabair/oat etc.

G SXTY

Imagine you are an airline's flightcrew recruitment manager. The company have decided how many FOs they are looking to recruit, and what proportion of them can be low-houred, newly qualified. Your job is to select the best candidates - people that can; (a) pass the type rating course and line training in minimum hours, and (b) not wind-up everyone they fly with. If some of the recruits aren't up to scratch, you'll very quickly have the fleet general manager on your case, because it's costing more time and money to train them, and - worst case - chopping someone at the end of their course is a huge waste of money, while the company has to restart the entire process. How much does each extra circuit in an A320 cost? You get the point.

On your desk are hundreds of low-houred CVs, with loads more appearing every week. They all look the same, so what do you do? One way is to ask FTOs for recommendations - they have seen candidates up close for months on end, so have a pretty good idea who the good ones are. Another (bearing in mind you can pick and choose the best) is to set very high requirements for their training history.

If I was that recruiter, I would do both. If I insisted that each interviewee had first series passes in the CPL/IR and 90%+ in the ATPLs, I would still have more than enough CVs to choose from. It's all perfectly rational and aimed at minimising risk (and cost) to the company. So what if the ATPL exams are full of daft questions - some type rating exams are as well. Many, many people are capable of averaging well over 90% in the ATPLs - that's the standard you're up against.

Note that this is for low-houred applicants. That sort of training history may reduce your chances of getting onto an airliner with 200hrs, but there are other ways to skin the cat. Get an instructor rating and start building hours that way. Airlines always have one eye on command potential, and the more hours you have, the closer you are to the left hand seat. Get 500-1,000hrs P1 from instructing, and the chances are your CV will go onto a different (and much smaller) pile - particularly with TP operators.

wheelie my boeing

BA don't take modular students. Either way, I am not saying don't apply. You will just have to stand out in a different way. If your grades aren't as good as some others but you have something or have done something which does stand out then you are in with a chance. If I had achieved a lower than 85% average in ATPLs I still would have a applied to BA just because I have always viewed it as a great airline to work for. If you don't apply, you'll never know...

rons22

i completely understand that recruitment managers have tough job to select the best pilots and reasons for their high expectations. I would do the same.

Why would airline take 36 yrs old donkey like me from cheap modular establishment when they have plenty of eager, 21 year old graduates from the top notch schools.

I will try air taxi.

Not sure about instructor route either, know many good instructors who never made it to airlines. Don't see how instructing experience on C152 makes you better turboprop/jet pilot. Completely different environments.

BerksFlyer

Who would you choose?

1. An instructor who has 1000 TT
2. Someone who finished training 6 months ago but is just sitting on his 200 TT expecting a job to fall into his lap

Not all instructors want to fly for airlines, instructing is a perfectly decent career. Also saying more experience on a C152 won't make you better than someone with less experience is a bit strange. With your line of thought wouldn't it be pointless in training full stop because training is done in light aircraft, and flying light aircraft doesn't make you a better pilot?

Airlines have minimum hour requirements and not all of them require heavy aircraft time, so instructing is a good way to get those hours.

Alltheway

Hi GSXTY and Wheelie my Boeing ,

I'm averaging low 90's in the ATPL's so far. My Instructors are advising us that the Certificates do not show the Grades or even the numbe rof sittings.

Do you know how you prove your results?

Also, what else I could be doing to improve my chances and stand out?

Many thank's for everyone's comments and advice. Further replies welcomed.

wheelie my boeing

Ask them for a certificate which has proof. If they say they don't have it then ask them how you can get one as it is a fairly important bit of info for airlines! If they say there is nothing official then ask them for a letter/document which states your exam results.
As far as I know, BA would want to see your exam results etc, and there MUST be a way of getting them...
Good luck!

Alltheway

Hi again,

Thanks for the reply. May I ask if your ATPL Certificate shows the Grades please?

wheelie my boeing

I have a certificate from the school I trained at which shows all of the results. I took that along to my interview, and as my school is reputable they didn't require are more proof.