Mobile Phones in the Cabin
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Mobile Phones in the Cabin
I am pretty sure, almost 100% sure this question has been posted before, but i'm not going to sift through a crapload of results on the search function.
So i ask..
Why do they make you turn off your mobile phone in flight? well really, why do they make you turn off electronic devices during takeoff and landing?
I've heard some people say that theres no reason to turn off mobile phones during flight and other people say that its an interference thing..
Can somebody please go into depth as to why it is either pointless or not about mobile phones being off during flight?
dan
So i ask..
Why do they make you turn off your mobile phone in flight? well really, why do they make you turn off electronic devices during takeoff and landing?
I've heard some people say that theres no reason to turn off mobile phones during flight and other people say that its an interference thing..
Can somebody please go into depth as to why it is either pointless or not about mobile phones being off during flight?
dan
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ATSB Incident reports - '94 through to current (well, nearly)
Here's some research info I found a while back relating to portable device incidents in AU.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...l8X-jcsFsCd_GA
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...l8X-jcsFsCd_GA
why it is either pointless or not about mobile phones being off during flight?
It doesn't always happen, but it can and does happen.
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bentleg is on the right track, the long wires in aircraft actually act as antennas and pick us all kinds of interference that is emitted by electronics devices.
This is why all aircraft equipment's certification program now involves EMC testing for both EMC emission and susceptibility to know that it will not produce any harmful emissions and that it will not be effected by any. The problem is that these standards test over a common frequency range and to set limits expected in the outside world. They can not take into account all circumstances or all portable electronic devices on the market.
The reason that all electronic devices are switched off for takeoff/landing is that although a lot of the interference caused is non-critical (ie flickering of a screen), the pilots have enough to worry about during this phase of flight. Sometimes the interference can cause warnings etc. to be displayed, in cruise other systems can be checked to determine if the indication is plausible or likely due to sensor interference. On short final this is not so easy.
This is why all aircraft equipment's certification program now involves EMC testing for both EMC emission and susceptibility to know that it will not produce any harmful emissions and that it will not be effected by any. The problem is that these standards test over a common frequency range and to set limits expected in the outside world. They can not take into account all circumstances or all portable electronic devices on the market.
The reason that all electronic devices are switched off for takeoff/landing is that although a lot of the interference caused is non-critical (ie flickering of a screen), the pilots have enough to worry about during this phase of flight. Sometimes the interference can cause warnings etc. to be displayed, in cruise other systems can be checked to determine if the indication is plausible or likely due to sensor interference. On short final this is not so easy.
I've personally seen the VOR needle dancing in time with the DAT DA DAT from a searching mobile phone. Just leave it off, it does have an effect (although it can be shielded against most signals), and it is both safer, and a hell of a lot nicer.
Imagine flying SY --> LAX, spending the entire flight listening to someone going on about what happened last night, or the business deal theyre trying to close.
Imagine flying SY --> LAX, spending the entire flight listening to someone going on about what happened last night, or the business deal theyre trying to close.
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Jeeez, a plane is the one safe haven from the bloody things.
Watching the hordes whip out the 'handphones' and start jabbering away the second they cleared the aircraft door and were walking down to the bus just reinforced how peaceful (despite the 4 giant donks) the previous 10 or so hours had been...
Although getting a running commentary of my entire visit ("Yes, we're bus-ing to the terminal".... "I'm waiting to clear immigration".... "This giant white guy is holding up the queue"... "I'm waiting for my bags".... "The train should be here in 2 minutes"... "we're 3 stations away"... etc. etc.) was very helpful... might have had to actually pay attention without it
Good Reception?
Imagine flying SY --> LAX, spending the entire flight listening to someone going on about what happened last night, or the business deal theyre trying to close.
Great link flog! 
Electromagnetic Radition / Frequencies from equipment is a big enough issue when designing a/c, let alone that produced by other electronic devices not designed to the same EMR guidelines aircraft systems are designed to.
Cap'n I have experienced the same behavior you described previously.
Plus I must say it $hits me to no end when someone leaves a mobile on and I keep getting the DAT DAT in my headphones!
Electromagnetic Radition / Frequencies from equipment is a big enough issue when designing a/c, let alone that produced by other electronic devices not designed to the same EMR guidelines aircraft systems are designed to.
Cap'n I have experienced the same behavior you described previously.
Plus I must say it $hits me to no end when someone leaves a mobile on and I keep getting the DAT DAT in my headphones!
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Mobiles
What about the fact that when people are playing with thier phones, lap tops, ipods ( whether they interfear or not ) whilst taking off or landing ie, critcal stages of flight, are not paying attention for cabin announcements be it serious or not and miss something about the possibility of the s*&t hitting the fan. Ipods and headsets to lap tops can be pretty loud. Duty of Care should be a consideration......
Just a constructive thought.
Just a constructive thought.
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I have proven they interfere with the Transponder in my plane.
That incident list was interesting......not one mention of the scAirbus at all
. Maybe with all the computer control they are better shielded? Who Knows
Just turn em off....all of them!
J
That incident list was interesting......not one mention of the scAirbus at all
. Maybe with all the computer control they are better shielded? Who KnowsJust turn em off....all of them!
J
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this has got to be a load of crap
24-Sep-04 200403855 Makin, (IFR) WA B 737-7BX Laptop Unknown INAV & VNAV disengaged, FMA enuciated LWS R & ALT hold with AIP P/RST caution flashing. AIP B remained on. Autopiliot Yes. Pax playing DVD on laptop
laptos cannot really interfere with communications or anything, unless wireless or something is enabled. and the signal will only really interfere if it is near the cockpit,
sorrry tought playing a dvd will not have effect on any aircraft, its just propoganda crap
24-Sep-04 200403855 Makin, (IFR) WA B 737-7BX Laptop Unknown INAV & VNAV disengaged, FMA enuciated LWS R & ALT hold with AIP P/RST caution flashing. AIP B remained on. Autopiliot Yes. Pax playing DVD on laptop
laptos cannot really interfere with communications or anything, unless wireless or something is enabled. and the signal will only really interfere if it is near the cockpit,
sorrry tought playing a dvd will not have effect on any aircraft, its just propoganda crap
Wireless or bluetooth might have been enabled and remember that clock frequencies of things such as that of the system bus and the cpu do produce electromagnetic fields.
Now if the said frequency come close to any nav equipment and the associated wiring then the possibility does exist that the equipment can interfere with aircraft equipment.
Not sure if someone knows the case study, but I remember seeing a reference to a case study done on electronic interference on the F111 in the mid 80's... not sure if the doc is in the public eye (can't see why not) as I saw this while working for a defence contractor.
Now if the said frequency come close to any nav equipment and the associated wiring then the possibility does exist that the equipment can interfere with aircraft equipment.
Not sure if someone knows the case study, but I remember seeing a reference to a case study done on electronic interference on the F111 in the mid 80's... not sure if the doc is in the public eye (can't see why not) as I saw this while working for a defence contractor.
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EFB
It all becomes interesting when CASA start trying to put an approval process around electronic flight bags that are not rated to specific aircraft.
What happens when I buy an eFlyBook from the US and try and run it up from the left seat of the Saab340 I'm currently in to see the approach plates and use them through to land...
What happens when I buy an eFlyBook from the US and try and run it up from the left seat of the Saab340 I'm currently in to see the approach plates and use them through to land...
Another interesting thing I found out driving home today (Please don't ask how I found this out, I was bored
)
Try tuning your radio to a very low AM frequency, where there is only static, no station. Turn it up a bit and drive around. Hear the pitch of the static change with your engine RPM. Try turning on your lights, wipers etc, and hear the interference in the otherwise clean static. Reach out and put your hand near the aerial. The fact that these things change the sound of the static is proof enough for me that nearly all electronics make EM fields which can and are transmitted through wires in various forms, whether it is to make a noise of dit di dit, or to give the autopilot the 5000'/min RoD command. (No my car doesn't have autopilot, so I can't prove that one)
I think the other people forget is that airliners have wires running down the whole length, it's not like all the electronics are isolated in the pointy end, so when you put the laptop near the wall, it could (for all you know) be an inch away from the elevator servo wires.
)Try tuning your radio to a very low AM frequency, where there is only static, no station. Turn it up a bit and drive around. Hear the pitch of the static change with your engine RPM. Try turning on your lights, wipers etc, and hear the interference in the otherwise clean static. Reach out and put your hand near the aerial. The fact that these things change the sound of the static is proof enough for me that nearly all electronics make EM fields which can and are transmitted through wires in various forms, whether it is to make a noise of dit di dit, or to give the autopilot the 5000'/min RoD command. (No my car doesn't have autopilot, so I can't prove that one
)I think the other people forget is that airliners have wires running down the whole length, it's not like all the electronics are isolated in the pointy end, so when you put the laptop near the wall, it could (for all you know) be an inch away from the elevator servo wires.
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hmm you do have some strong points there..
but seriously a laptop.. cant meerly have that much power to interfere with such high electronics of a large aircraft.
if a laptop can interfere with a large aircrafts equipment. why not our equipment, our hearts ,, brain,, give us cancer ., or something .
if a laptop did produce that much electronic interference ,, why doesnt it interfere with its own parts,,
laptop comes in diff bits, diff voltages, etc,different parts,,
cpu , cd rom, ram , gfx card, other ports, see they all run of the same fine, why dont each part clash with eachother.
i dunno guys but i find it really hard to believe a laptop to really interfere that bad with a large aircraft, such as auto pilots and other nav equip.
i think the reason why they mainly ask to pack up everything at take off and ladings, is to back up their own ass. as into safety, so no laptops or phones go flying around the cabin hittin someone in the head and then them sewin the airlines,
but seriously a laptop.. cant meerly have that much power to interfere with such high electronics of a large aircraft.
if a laptop can interfere with a large aircrafts equipment. why not our equipment, our hearts ,, brain,, give us cancer ., or something .
if a laptop did produce that much electronic interference ,, why doesnt it interfere with its own parts,,
laptop comes in diff bits, diff voltages, etc,different parts,,
cpu , cd rom, ram , gfx card, other ports, see they all run of the same fine, why dont each part clash with eachother.
i dunno guys but i find it really hard to believe a laptop to really interfere that bad with a large aircraft, such as auto pilots and other nav equip.
i think the reason why they mainly ask to pack up everything at take off and ladings, is to back up their own ass. as into safety, so no laptops or phones go flying around the cabin hittin someone in the head and then them sewin the airlines,