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Torres Air Accident Monday 3rd October

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Torres Air Accident Monday 3rd October

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Old 4th Oct 2022, 07:56
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Torres Air Accident Monday 3rd October

A Bn2 has reportedly had engine issues at Kubin Island (Moa) in Torres Strait’s.
Unsure if departing or arriving, all passengers and pilot ok. Good to hear. Aircraft a write off.


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Old 4th Oct 2022, 09:34
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SBS reporting “engines failed” . 9 school kids from Saibai Is to Horn Is, crash landed on Moa Is.
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Old 4th Oct 2022, 11:09
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Originally Posted by Cloudee
SBS reporting “engines failed” . 9 school kids from Saibai Is to Horn Is, crash landed on Moa Is.
It’s pretty rare two engines ‘fail’ on a twin engine aircraft. I can’t specifically speak for the BN2 Islanders, from my understanding they are equipped with Lycomings and pretty robust old machines!!!!!
It will be interesting to learn further of this incident.

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Old 4th Oct 2022, 20:02
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Accident Britten-Norman BN-2A-21 Islander VH-WQA, 03 Oct 2022 (aviation-safety.net)
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 00:09
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Originally Posted by Blueocean505
It’s pretty rare two engines ‘fail’ on a twin engine aircraft. I can’t specifically speak for the BN2 Islanders, from my understanding they are equipped with Lycomings and pretty robust old machines!!!!!
It will be interesting to learn further of this incident.
Concur. Double engine failures for mechanical reasons are (almost) as rare as rocking horse ****. Which reduces the possibilities to the one common system: fuel -lack thereof or supply mismanagement.
The BN2 system at its most basic, could not be simpler: one tank, one engine. Job done. Just make sure there is enough for the job.

Correct, unless they’re gas turbines (Rolls/Allison’s) they’re Lycoming 540’s. 260hp carburetted O-540, 300hp injected IO-540.

And that’s where the subtleties come in… in the carburetted engine, unless there’s been a massive fuel leak, your fuel management is done (see above). The injected engine however, will pump around double the required fuel to the FCU, with the excess being returned to the tank on the same side as the engine. In a x-feed situation (for whatever reason) transferring fuel to the tank not in use. Very much a trap for young players, or drivers that just love fiddling.

Add to that the possibility of tip-tanks. They’re pretty basic too: their fuel simply pumps into the adjacent wing tank, which feeds the engines.

None of this is an analysis of the crash in question. Just some thoughts on what may or may not be a double engine failure.

Whatever the cause, a remarkable job done saving all lives on board, apparently without injury, despite destroying the airframe.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 00:15
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Originally Posted by RadioSaigon
Concur. Double engine failures for mechanical reasons are (almost) as rare as rocking horse ****. Which reduces the possibilities to the one common system: fuel -lack thereof or supply mismanagement.
The BN2 system at its most basic, could not be simpler: one tank, one engine. Job done. Just make sure there is enough for the job.

Correct, unless they’re gas turbines (Rolls/Allison’s) they’re Lycoming 540’s. 260hp carburetted O-540, 300hp injected IO-540.

And that’s where the subtleties come in… in the carburetted engine, unless there’s been a massive fuel leak, your fuel management is done (see above). The injected engine however, will pump around double the required fuel to the FCU, with the excess being returned to the tank on the same side as the engine. In a x-feed situation (for whatever reason) transferring fuel to the tank not in use. Very much a trap for young players, or drivers that just love fiddling.

Add to that the possibility of tip-tanks. They’re pretty basic too: their fuel simply pumps into the adjacent wing tank, which feeds the engines.

None of this is an analysis of the crash in question. Just some thoughts on what may or may not be a double engine failure.

Whatever the cause, a remarkable job done saving all lives on board, apparently without injury, despite destroying the airframe.
A mate had a double engine failure on a Beech 18 that was not fuel related, if i remember correctly it was oil pump failure in both engines within 15 minutes of each other. Each pump was within 20 hours service of the other. Ended up ditching in a lagoon a few hundred short of a strip. All ok, although a bit wet, lucky it was tropical...
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 04:06
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Might have made Kubin airport if he/she had reduced to best glide speed?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHWQA







Last edited by Two_dogs; 8th Oct 2022 at 04:23.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 05:06
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Two-Dogs I’d be surprised if he/she wasn’t trying to get to the airfield…. Maybe circumstances didn’t allow it for whatever reason
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 05:44
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Two dogs

perhaps if s/he had started the APU then that little bit of extra thrust may have helped too
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 05:55
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Originally Posted by Alice Kiwican
Two-Dogs I’d be surprised if he/she wasn’t trying to get to the airfield…. Maybe circumstances didn’t allow it for whatever reason
Originally Posted by No Idea Either
Two dogs

perhaps if s/he had started the APU then that little bit of extra thrust may have helped too

You're missing my point...What is the best glide speed?

Best glide speed is the airspeed at which the aircraft glides the farthest with the least loss of altitude.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 06:00
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I heard they may have forgotten to retract the landing gear as well, can't have helped the glide range...

Dug up this while thinking about this incident. Maybe some similarities WRT to airspeed management, might not be...

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4931726/199601101.pdf

Best glide with both feathered would probably be close to blue line, would definitely not be a high speed with that airframe. Blue line would be at least close and safe to use. I know in heavier props recommended glide is just north of V2 type speeds. Haven't flown a BN2 so have no idea if there's a listed glide speed.

Last edited by 43Inches; 5th Oct 2022 at 06:19.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 06:28
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You're missing my point...What is the best glide speed?
According to Douglas Adams it's 42, in a Bongo is it not 65?
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 06:58
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BN2
Vx 65 kias
Vy 65 kias
Vxse 65 kias
Vyse 65 kias
Vref 65 kias
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 07:49
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Originally Posted by Two_dogs
BN2
Vx 65 kias
Vy 65 kias
Vxse 65 kias
Vyse 65 kias
Vref 65 kias
I think one could confidently guess at a glide speed then.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 07:50
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BN2 + Gliding cannot be used in the same sentence!
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 07:57
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BN2 + Gliding cannot be used in the same sentence!
It's always hard to tell unless you've glided it with both props feather. It's suprising how far an ATR, DASH or SAAB glides with the props feathered vs dropping straight down with them windmilling. The ATR in particular tested this theory over the Med and the crew didn't really step up to it, report finding they could have easily avoided ditching had they maintained the correct speed and feathered both engines timely.
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 10:37
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Devil

Extremely glad that Pilot and all Pax are ok, but I simply cannot supress a small feeling of relief that there is now one less of those infernal, Bullworker aileron, Pilot deafening pieces of machinery left in the skies!

And yes, the above is posted tongue-in-cheek! The bit about the Bongo Van that is...
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 11:28
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Originally Posted by Two_dogs

You're missing my point...What is the best glide speed?

Best glide speed is the airspeed at which the aircraft glides the farthest with the least loss of altitude.
Yes good point! As posted earlier everything for the Bingo was 65kts

Do we know for sure that neither engine was operating? Could it be the PIC may have had one or both producing a little bit of power?

Whatever the cause was you can’t complain about the outcome
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 12:51
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Originally Posted by Blueocean505
It’s pretty rare two engines ‘fail’ on a twin engine aircraft. I can’t specifically speak for the BN2 Islanders, from my understanding they are equipped with Lycomings and pretty robust old machines!!!!!
It will be interesting to learn further of this incident.
Rare but not unheard of. Sadly every now and again someone’s number comes up. Whyalla Airlines MZK had the same in the same basic engine except fuel injected etc.
Thank goodness this time the odds lined up to help on this occasion. I know nothing of it except everyone survived. Big thumbs up from me!
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Old 5th Oct 2022, 13:47
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Originally Posted by Two_dogs
BN2
Vx 65 kias
Vy 65 kias
Vxse 65 kias
Vyse 65 kias
Vref 65 kias
And...The Average high frequency hearing loss from those who have flown one... 65DB
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