Possibly some good news for those ex service LGBT members
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Possibly some good news for those ex service LGBT members
Possibly some good news for those ex service LBGT members
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60037103
one thing I didn’t know and it amazes me is..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60037103
LGBT veterans have cautiously welcomed a review into the impact of a ban on them serving in the military, which has been launched more than 20 years after the law was changed.
Until 2000 it was illegal to be gay in the British military - a rule that's thought to have affected about 5,000 people in the armed forces.
The review will look at what could be done now to help support those people.
Campaigners hope the review's outcome will entitle them to compensation.
The veterans hope to be offered mental health support, financial compensation, and the restoration of pensions that were taken away for those who underwent dishonourable discharge.
Until 2000 it was illegal to be gay in the British military - a rule that's thought to have affected about 5,000 people in the armed forces.
The review will look at what could be done now to help support those people.
Campaigners hope the review's outcome will entitle them to compensation.
The veterans hope to be offered mental health support, financial compensation, and the restoration of pensions that were taken away for those who underwent dishonourable discharge.
David Bonney served four months in a military prison in Colchester in 1995 after being convicted of "homosexual conduct" while working for the RAF as a medic.
Although he was later freed on appeal, the conviction is still on his criminal record. He says it's had a long-lasting impact on his life.
"From the moment I admitted to [being gay], I was held in a cell separate to everyone," he tells BBC News.
"Handcuffs, going into a cell, treated as if I'd murdered or mugged someone."
Although he was later freed on appeal, the conviction is still on his criminal record. He says it's had a long-lasting impact on his life.
"From the moment I admitted to [being gay], I was held in a cell separate to everyone," he tells BBC News.
"Handcuffs, going into a cell, treated as if I'd murdered or mugged someone."
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During my service I knew a guy that got kicked out for being gay that wasn’t , he simply used it as a free PVR option as he couldn’t afford to pay the PVR cost.
I didn’t realise it would result in a criminal record because of it. I hope it never screwed up his future as he was a great guy and a “straighter” person you would struggle to meet.
I didn’t realise it would result in a criminal record because of it. I hope it never screwed up his future as he was a great guy and a “straighter” person you would struggle to meet.
Yawn. Surely there are bigger fish to fry in the UK at the moment?
They got the ban lifted (which they knew about when they joined up), they had their pensions and medals back. What's next?!
They got the ban lifted (which they knew about when they joined up), they had their pensions and medals back. What's next?!
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The medic on the news was saying he now has a criminal record for sexual offences which in effect stopped / hampered him becoming a nurse, it did not mention on his records the offence was for simply being gay, that is wrong on so many levels.
I accept that the rules were wrong and needed changing and that they were probably very good at their jobs, but these people knew that it was against the law at the time and knowingly broke it. What did they think would happen if they were found out?
Remember that had they been compromised, there was a possibility of blackmail, particularly for those working in sensitive areas.
Unfortunately, breaking the law does have consequences. Just because the law is different today, doesn’t make their actions right and they need to accept that.
Remember that had they been compromised, there was a possibility of blackmail, particularly for those working in sensitive areas.
Unfortunately, breaking the law does have consequences. Just because the law is different today, doesn’t make their actions right and they need to accept that.
Remember that had they been compromised, there was a possibility of blackmail, particularly for those working in sensitive areas.
What if you were in denial about your own sexuality (surprisingly common, especially for people brought up in an unsupportive environment) and assumed you were straight when you joined up? You love your job, you're good at your job, and after a few years you start to realise/accept who you really are? What do you do then? In the absolute best case you have to abandon the career you love and start all over again, very likely incurring financial hardship along the way, but there's also a very real risk of ending up with a criminal record which will probably close off many other career options. How would you feel about ending up in that position, through no fault of your own?
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What if you were in denial about your own sexuality (surprisingly common, especially for people brought up in an unsupportive environment) and assumed you were straight when you joined up? You love your job, you're good at your job, and after a few years you start to realise/accept who you really are? What do you do then? In the absolute best case you have to abandon the career you love and start all over again, very likely incurring financial hardship along the way, but there's also a very real risk of ending up with a criminal record which will probably close off many other career options. How would you feel about ending up in that position, through no fault of your own?
Possibly some good news for those ex service LBGT members
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60037103
one thing I didn’t know and it amazes me is..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60037103
one thing I didn’t know and it amazes me is..
The following users liked this post:
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I would also remove their criminal records, the Country pardoned Turing so why not these guys and girls. I do agree though with the consensus these folks knew the rules when they joined up, but equally agree with the fact that people change as they get older and hence would find themselves trapped in a culture where it was frowned upon, heck I wouldn’t ever eat cooked carrots as a nipper, but love them now.
and I totally agree with the blackmail statement, it was only blackmail able because it was illegal in the military.
As for restoration of pensions, I agree, but do you restore it to time served, or time originally signed on for, as they were in a way unable to qualify for the full period due to being ejected from the forces.
and I totally agree with the blackmail statement, it was only blackmail able because it was illegal in the military.
As for restoration of pensions, I agree, but do you restore it to time served, or time originally signed on for, as they were in a way unable to qualify for the full period due to being ejected from the forces.
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You restore it to time served, simple. Or at least.. if the law change is Grandfathered then so should the benefits be.
Imagine living in 2022 and being upset that someone is gay. Get over it. It makes about as much sense as worrying about what your neighbour had for dinner.
Dan
Imagine living in 2022 and being upset that someone is gay. Get over it. It makes about as much sense as worrying about what your neighbour had for dinner.
Dan
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67677272
Veterans demand Commons debate on review into past armed forces gay ban
The government has dropped a key commitment to veterans who were sacked or forced out of the military for being gay, sources have told the BBC.
In July - following an independent report - the then Defence Secretary Ben Wallace promised a Westminster debate about how best to make reparations. The BBC has learned the debate is now scrapped, meaning MPs will not get to scrutinise the government's response.
The government says it will publish its full response to the report "shortly".
Leading military charities have signed an open letter calling on Prime Minister Rishi Sunak to honour the promise to hold a debate and "bring an end to the shame and dishonour" veterans have suffered. They have also asked for the £50m compensation limit that was recommended in the review to be lifted.
They estimate that cap will mean veterans may receive less than £20,000 in financial settlements. They say this will leave many, who lost their income and future pensions when they were expelled from the forces, unable to find stable housing and facing "impoverishment" in older age.
The letter has been written by campaign group Fighting With Pride and signed by organisations including The Royal British Legion, Help for Heroes, Women's Royal Army Corps Association and Age UK.
Homosexuality was decriminalised in the UK in 1967 but a ban continued in the armed forces. Until 2000, those who were gay, or perceived to be gay, faced being dismissed or were otherwise forced to leave.
The LGBT Veterans Independent review, led by Britain's first openly gay judge Lord Etherton, heard about the experiences of 1,145 veterans who served between 1967 and 2000. It found that there had been an "incomprehensible policy of homophobic bigotry" in the armed forces and found that veterans were subject to homophobia, bullying, blackmail, sexual assaults, "disgraceful" medical examinations, and conversion therapy.
Following the publication of Lord Etherton's report in July, the prime minister said the ban was an "appalling failure" of the British state. Addressing MPs, he added: "Many endured the most horrific sexual abuse and violence, homophobic bullying and harassment all while bravely serving this country."
Ben Wallace, the then defence secretary, said that MPs would be given a chance to debate the report and the government's response, adding it was "important that both opposition and our colleagues can hold me or my successor to account."
Sources have said the debate in Westminster will be replaced with a statement by new Defence Secretary Grant Shapps in Parliament on Wednesday, 13 December.
The Scottish Parliament will hold a debate in Holyrood on Wednesday evening.
Craig Jones and Caroline Paige, co-directors of campaign group Fighting With Pride, who campaigned for the review, said: "Over 1,000 veterans returned to their darkest days as they gave evidence to the LGBT Veterans Independent Review. In denying LGBT veterans the promised Parliamentary debate the government is failing to match their courage - this is an unacceptable act of erasure.
"The £50m cap is a far cry from schemes proposed for those affected by tainted blood, Windrush and for Post Office workers affected by the Horizon scandal. The amounts for each veteran will be derisory and will deny these veterans the security of stable housing and the income needed to find enjoyment in their lives."
A government spokesperson said: "We have accepted in principle the vast majority of the Etherton report's recommendations.Many of the recommendations are complex and it is vital that the government carefully considers their delivery to ensure the best outcomes for those affected."
David Bonney is thought to be the last man in Britain ever to go to prison for being gay, serving four months in a military prison in Colchester in 1995 after being convicted of "homosexual conduct" while working for the RAF as a medic. Although he was later freed on appeal, the conviction is still on his criminal record and is listed as a sexual offence. He also lost out on the ability to claim the pension built up during his years of service.
He told the BBC that submitting evidence to the enquiry had felt like "going back to your childhood bully to ask for help".
Reacting to the news, he added: "Yet again the bullies win, why should they not make up my loss of pension and wages? I can't see how the House of Commons would agree with the cap on financial compensation, which probably explains why Rishi Sunak doesn't want a debate. I expected this delay and it proves that once again, homophobes must have the ear of the prime minister."
A government spokesperson added: "Responding to the LGBT Veterans Independent Review and delivering its recommendations remains a high priority and further detail on the delivery of recommendations will be included in our full response, which will be published shortly."
Veterans demand Commons debate on review into past armed forces gay ban
The government has dropped a key commitment to veterans who were sacked or forced out of the military for being gay, sources have told the BBC.
In July - following an independent report - the then Defence Secretary Ben Wallace promised a Westminster debate about how best to make reparations. The BBC has learned the debate is now scrapped, meaning MPs will not get to scrutinise the government's response.
The government says it will publish its full response to the report "shortly".
Leading military charities have signed an open letter calling on Prime Minister Rishi Sunak to honour the promise to hold a debate and "bring an end to the shame and dishonour" veterans have suffered. They have also asked for the £50m compensation limit that was recommended in the review to be lifted.
They estimate that cap will mean veterans may receive less than £20,000 in financial settlements. They say this will leave many, who lost their income and future pensions when they were expelled from the forces, unable to find stable housing and facing "impoverishment" in older age.
The letter has been written by campaign group Fighting With Pride and signed by organisations including The Royal British Legion, Help for Heroes, Women's Royal Army Corps Association and Age UK.
Homosexuality was decriminalised in the UK in 1967 but a ban continued in the armed forces. Until 2000, those who were gay, or perceived to be gay, faced being dismissed or were otherwise forced to leave.
The LGBT Veterans Independent review, led by Britain's first openly gay judge Lord Etherton, heard about the experiences of 1,145 veterans who served between 1967 and 2000. It found that there had been an "incomprehensible policy of homophobic bigotry" in the armed forces and found that veterans were subject to homophobia, bullying, blackmail, sexual assaults, "disgraceful" medical examinations, and conversion therapy.
Following the publication of Lord Etherton's report in July, the prime minister said the ban was an "appalling failure" of the British state. Addressing MPs, he added: "Many endured the most horrific sexual abuse and violence, homophobic bullying and harassment all while bravely serving this country."
Ben Wallace, the then defence secretary, said that MPs would be given a chance to debate the report and the government's response, adding it was "important that both opposition and our colleagues can hold me or my successor to account."
Sources have said the debate in Westminster will be replaced with a statement by new Defence Secretary Grant Shapps in Parliament on Wednesday, 13 December.
The Scottish Parliament will hold a debate in Holyrood on Wednesday evening.
Craig Jones and Caroline Paige, co-directors of campaign group Fighting With Pride, who campaigned for the review, said: "Over 1,000 veterans returned to their darkest days as they gave evidence to the LGBT Veterans Independent Review. In denying LGBT veterans the promised Parliamentary debate the government is failing to match their courage - this is an unacceptable act of erasure.
"The £50m cap is a far cry from schemes proposed for those affected by tainted blood, Windrush and for Post Office workers affected by the Horizon scandal. The amounts for each veteran will be derisory and will deny these veterans the security of stable housing and the income needed to find enjoyment in their lives."
A government spokesperson said: "We have accepted in principle the vast majority of the Etherton report's recommendations.Many of the recommendations are complex and it is vital that the government carefully considers their delivery to ensure the best outcomes for those affected."
David Bonney is thought to be the last man in Britain ever to go to prison for being gay, serving four months in a military prison in Colchester in 1995 after being convicted of "homosexual conduct" while working for the RAF as a medic. Although he was later freed on appeal, the conviction is still on his criminal record and is listed as a sexual offence. He also lost out on the ability to claim the pension built up during his years of service.
He told the BBC that submitting evidence to the enquiry had felt like "going back to your childhood bully to ask for help".
Reacting to the news, he added: "Yet again the bullies win, why should they not make up my loss of pension and wages? I can't see how the House of Commons would agree with the cap on financial compensation, which probably explains why Rishi Sunak doesn't want a debate. I expected this delay and it proves that once again, homophobes must have the ear of the prime minister."
A government spokesperson added: "Responding to the LGBT Veterans Independent Review and delivering its recommendations remains a high priority and further detail on the delivery of recommendations will be included in our full response, which will be published shortly."
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Main subject now in anglo-saxon medias.
Seems to be their message to the world.
Can they accept that other people might disagree ?
Having to work alongside the US or british forces is a terrible experience nowadays. Are we really on the same alliance ?
Seems to be their message to the world.
Can they accept that other people might disagree ?
Having to work alongside the US or british forces is a terrible experience nowadays. Are we really on the same alliance ?
