want to wear Three Stripes whilst instructing in a Cessna 152.......

Multiflight Leeds........

Where they keep the tarpaulin handy to cover up the Robins that seem to have off runway excursions...

Personally I instruct in a pair of jean and a wooly fleece, Id rather come across with a professional attitude and leave trying to impress the student till you can do something impressive..... scruffy - maybe ,happy students benefiting from my instructors passed down knowledge - definetely........

I really have trouble believing that this topic has warranted what almost amounts to serious discussion.

Please, all those who wish to 'dress up' before flying, have a look at yourselves in the mirror, and try to take a long, slow, reality check.

If you do happen to be at a school which requires the wearing of uniform, then you'll have to put up with the conditions of the job. Some (eg Cabair - where many of today's better airline pilots cut their teeth) have their reasons for uniforms. Others are merely glossing over the cracks.

Much PPL instruction in the UK is woeful in content and quality - getting dressed up isn't going to help, but sorting out your flying and teaching will.

And no-one looking at you in the car on your way home will think you're big or clever, either.

You got there before me Fokjok!!

Can't believe this thread really - go for the hours, they're more important.

But just to add my pennies worth - I take mine off when I'm driving back from the airport because I feel like a tool.

GuSu

RAF aircraft seem to fly OK when the pilots only have one or two stripes. Occasionally, the Captain had just one whilst the the Co-Pilot had 3. Confused the civies!!

There is a saying Gold Braid and Bull****!

we don't wear stripes but we do have epaulettes with our aero club logo printed on it. they do look a little more professional. some are embarrassed to wear them but i don't really mind. it's not a status thing, its just looks a little better i think. the best thing i find is that when walking down the street (yes i wear them outside the club, because I am a pilot after all and i feel that after all the hard work i put in, why should i feel ashamed of being one?) is that little kids think you are a policewoman and they behave themselves quick smart!

I wouldn't want to wear stripes until i get my airline job, but people who don't consider themselves 'real pilots' simply because they are still in the process of getting where they want to go, need to get a grip. you may not fly airliners, but you are still a qualified commercial pilot, just at a different level.

------------------
"if there is no peril in the fight, there is no glory in the triumph"

Azzie,
I wouldn`t let your ppl students know that after paying all their money and time for training that they will not be "real" pilots.

Talking about rank. I was a lowly Sergeant flying Lincolns and Mustangs many years back. Nowadays it makes me laugh to see all the gold wings and braid around Cessnas and Pipers. A bloke on my course was a Flying Officer captain of a Hercules in the circuit at Fiji. His rank meant one thickish stripe on his green flying suit. His co-pilot was a really big bloke with the one skinny stripe denoting the rank of Pilot Officer - sometimes known as Bog Rat. Bog-rat had 300 hours.
Well, they are downwind right circuit when a PanAm B707 is downwind left circuit. Obviously conflicting. Bruce (C130 skipper -and that was his real name) tells the 707 to land first. But Bruce's co-pilot missed the call and turned inside the 707 forcing the 707 into a go-around.
Choice words from the PanAm 4 bar captain.
10 minutes later, with both aircraft parked near each other, the pumped up 20,000 hour PanAm captain (very short in stature) and sporting more braid than Idi Armin himself is spotted striding purposely toward the C130 whose crew are blinded by the tropical sun reflecting off the scrambled eggs on his Sandhurst type hat.

Bruce delegates the big Bog-Rat to descend the stairs of the Hercules and greet the approaching scowling highly plumaged short one. As the passengers climbed into buses they were treated to the priceless sight of a large 21 year Air Force Pilot Officer with one itsy bitsy faded blue stripe on his shoulder telling the short highly plumaged PanAm senior captain to **** off or get thumped. After much fist waving the Pilot Officer and the Four Bar captain stalked back to their respective aeroplanes.
Rank meant nothing - it's character that counts...and size helps.

I didn’t pay $40,000 and spend 3 years studying just to be able to put silly strips on my shoulders. I could have got them for $30.00 at any pilot shop long before I got my licence.
Unless you’re flying an airliner, what difference would it make? I never had a FO in my C-310.

[This message has been edited by Flight Deck (edited 27 April 2000).]

HeHeHe, I take mine off on the drive home too,..and I fly for an Airline!

A and C

Nobody mentioned the South American General look until you. Read the post. We're only talking about stripes, not the full suit dripping with woven braid, bird poo on the hat and shoulders etc.

Fokjok

Without someone to teach people like your esteemed self there would be no pilots and no jobs, real or otherwise.

GoodGuy, In-Cog-neeto, Checkboard, Azzie

I agree! Without us there would be no flying, only bus and train driving. We create the chance for anyone in the world to come and enjoy the art of flying. As a first step towards this enjoyment, the prospective artist needs to know they are in a safe place. What better way then to impress the new flyer than to say "I've passed the same exams as a commercial airline co-pilot, and because I regularly teach this stuff, I probably know it better than they do. If there is any place to be that is safer than with me, or that can teach you better then let them show themselves".

Part of the flying experience IMHO is knowing that your Instructor can always bring something new into your flying. If we can we do, so why hide our qualification? We need to make people aware of how good we are so that they keep flying. NOT BECAUSE (A and C) we need to part the punters from their cash, or because (Kalik) we lack confidence in our own abilities. Rather it is because we DO have the confidence that we can (at least some of us can) say non-verbally "learn with me and you will enjoy this because I know what I am doing". Sure, the ability, competence and integrity are valuable but I don't think they are a good place to start because you need to spend some time with people to know whether they possess these qualities.

ppr

Lawyers do have uniforms, they're called suits. Would you trust a lawyer if you walked into an office where tidy clothes or not didn't seem to matter? Or an accountant? Or a doctor? Just because it isn't "scrambled eggs and braid" doesn't mean it's not a uniform. There are certain expectations in society and one is that a pilot with a valid commercial license will have some sign of rank. See the comments from WWW.

If you don't want to put your occupation in your profile, who are you to criticise the rest of us about self-worth? Don't you feel secure of what you are doing, or are you not even doing it any more?

FWIW, I had a bigger stripe when I was a student than I do now. The difference is the colour - it was a thick blue one (as an intake identifier) when I was learning, now I've got two thin gold ones.

If you can read this, thank a teacher!

Safe flying

I agree with BEagle, My old flying club had a polo shirt with the logo and instructor writen on it. Smart enough but not too formal for a flying school.

I always take my stripes off in the car too - and I too fly with an Airline

If we wish to be treated seriously by others then perhaps we should take ourselves more seriously!

Some of the views expressed so far can only help to maintain the view that we are the 'lowest form of life'!

Personally I think that instructors should look smart and professional.

Our students look to us for training and guidance, the least we can do is dress and act in a professional manner.

As for stripes I would be happy to wear them. I am a professional pilot and very PROUD of the fact.

Thankyou for your contributions everyone.

Happy landings

Incog

There is nothing like freedom of choice.Clean cut and smart.
I flew with a part timer who worked full time at a funeral home,he had dirty nails and I couldn't help wondering if the dirt was part of one customers at the embalming shop.A very real distraction and my last flight with him.
Marks and Spencers is smart enough.Try not to look like a fashion victim.Strong eye watering aftershave are also a no-no.
A learning enviorment is what the instructor is trying to create.
Choice is nice.Blue skies

for a start, ppr, you got completely the wrong end of the stick regarding my post. it took me a few minutes to work out what you were talking about. didn't mean to leave out ppl's as they are real pilots too. my point is exactly that though....we are all 'real' pilots once we have a licence. i agree with igcogneeto...if we continue to behave like the scum of the flying world (as instructors), then we will be treated like it. take pride in what you do. just because you don't fly an airliner doesn't mean your flying is a waste of time.

as for those airline pilots who confess to taking off the stripe on the the way home...get a grip. i certainly don't spend my days strutting around town with my uniform on, but i certainly don't go to the wasted effort of taking off any evidence of what i am and what i do either. i'm not ashamed of being a pilot but it sounds as though you guys are. what a pity you spent all the time, effort and money only to engage in such pathetic behaviour.

Azzie....

Agreed....well said!

Incog

There is one small fact that the rather posh airline boys have forgotten.......it was an instructor that taught them to fly....without us you would be sweeping roads.

GG

One thing that the posh airline boys fail to remember is that it was an instructor that taught them to fly.

G G

What a sensible comment GoodGuy .

Had I not learnt to fly , how many stripes could I have worn as a roadsweeper ? And could I have worn my liontamers hat ?

The answer to the original question "how many bars can I wear," is "as many as you can load on without exceeding max gross on the aircraft." There are no laws governing the wearing of epaulettes, and there don't seem to be any general standards.

You might also consider the question, how many bars can you wear without someone thinking you're a twit. The consensus answer to that one seems to be zero.

The only flight instructors I have seen with bars on work for air-taxi/charter companies, so they're wearing the bars to be identifiable to passengers, not to students.

And anyhow, if you wear shiny bars, take 'em off your shoulders when you're off duty so that you don't accidentally put them in the washing machine with the shirt.

I wear a uniform in my (vocation) and it just acts as a focal point for the saturday night **** head, I would love to blend into the background and get on with my job.
It seems to shout authority to your average single brain cell prat, and they react in the only way they know.
Perhaps this could be one of the factors in air rage attacks?
But back to the thread, I learnt with a superb instructor he wore casual clothes all the time, but I judge on ability not looks!

[This message has been edited by PA38 (edited 30 April 2000).]