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-   -   Stall / Spin awareness for student pilots (https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/647450-stall-spin-awareness-student-pilots.html)

excrab 25th Jun 2022 13:03

Stall / Spin awareness for student pilots
 
A flying club where I sometimes fly has started advertising stall / spin training in a Chipmunk (they normally train in PA28s).
They say that in order to under take the course students must have completed exercises 10a and 10b, and that the course is a compulsory part of the syllabus and students will not be entered for their skills test until they have completed this training.

My understanding of the syllabus was that lessons 10A and 10B (slow flight and stall/spin awareness) had replaced spinning some time ago, so Iím wondering when the CAA introduced this mandatory training, and what clubs are doing now if they are training in aircraft not approved for spinning and aerobatics?

sluggums 25th Jun 2022 13:36

I don’t think spinning is mandatory. There’s 2 hours of SSAT required, but full spins are not a requirement afaik.

Fl1ingfrog 25th Jun 2022 14:22

Mandatory spinning was removed many years ago although many disagreed at the time. The emphasise became on spin avoidance. So recovery was to be made at the incipient point. In non aerobatic terms this means at the 'wing drop'. In aerobatic terms the incipient stage involves a number of rotations until the spin stabilises. The true definition has never been settled. For commercial pilot training a strange title has been borne called 'Upset Recovery Training' when as close to a rotation that is possible is practised (a spin is not required). So, an aerobatic or at least an aircraft cleared for spinning is commonly used as a rotation is highly likely to occur. If your school also trains commercial pilots then that may be why they have acquired a Chipmunk and seek to use PPL students to underwrite the running costs..

Many will see the clubs requirement to be of interest and valuable training and experience. Others will see it as terrifying and perhaps physiologically unacceptable. It is NOT a requirement of the UK CAA nor the EASA PPL training. The Head of training has no right to refuse to sign the Certificate of Training if the authority syllabus been successfully completed.

Whopity 25th Jun 2022 14:59

Exercises 10a and 10b are part of the UK Syllabus published in CAP 1298

Exercise 10a Slow flight
Safety checks
Introduction to slow flight
Controlled flight slowing to critically slow airspeed
Coordinated use of controls at critically slow airspeed
Recovery from a critically slow airspeed
Exercise 10b Stalling
Safety checks
Symptoms and recognition of the stall
The clean stall and recovery without and with power
Stall recovery during a wing drop
The stall and recovery with power and/or flap (or spoilers, airbrakes or speedbrakes, as applicable)
The approach to stall and recovery in the approach configuration
The approach to stall and recovery in the landing configuration
The approach to stall and recovery in the take-off configuration
Stall and incipient stall and recovery in different configurations and various manoeuvres
Exercise 11 Spin avoidance
Safety checks
Recognition of the incipient spin
Recovery from the incipient spin
This document was introduced as an ALTMOC to FCL.210-215


Exercise 10a: Slow flight:
Note: the objective is to improve the studentís ability to recognise inadvertent flight at critically low speeds and provide practice in maintaining the aeroplane in balance while returning to normal air speed.
(A) safety checks;
(B) introduction to slow flight;
(C) controlled flight down to critically slow air speed;
(D) application of full power with correct attitude and balance to achieve normal climb speed.
(xiii) Exercise 10b: Stalling:
(A) safety checks;
(B) symptoms;
(C) recognition;
(D) clean stall and recovery without power and with power;
(E) recovery when a wing drops;
(F) approach to stall in the approach and in the landing configurations, with and without power and recovery at the incipient stage.
(xiv) Exercise 11: Spin avoidance:
(A) safety checks;
(B) stalling and recovery at the incipient spin stage (stall with excessive wing drop, about 45į);
(C) instructor induced distractions during the stall.
Note 1: at least two hours of stall awareness and spin avoidance flight training should be completed during the course.
Note 2: consideration of manoeuvre limitations and the need to refer to the aeroplane manual and mass and balance calculations.
Nobody has reintroduced Spinning to the PPL syllabus.

TheOddOne 26th Jun 2022 06:59

Fl1ingfrog suggests:

may be why they have acquired a Chipmunk and seek to use PPL students to underwrite the running costs..
in which case I'd avoid them like the plague. The additional costs of running a Chipmunk, specially at relatively low utilisation must be around £500 an hour. Do they make them learn how to land it, as well? That'll add another 4-5 hours on to the course.
I would argue (and as above, it is still an open debate) that spin training and recovery is a part of an aerobatics course, post PPL issue and should be taught by an instructor with the appropriate qualification.
Spin recovery training was just coming out of the PPL syllabus when I did mine 40 years ago. I well recall a couple of fatal accidents which killed not only students, but instructors, too. Far more people were being killed in spin training than in post-PPL accidents and the nay-sayers that said removing spin training would result in more accidents were proved wrong.
I spend more time on the 'base to final turn' stall recovery because that's what kills people. You're never going to recover from a spin at 500' AGL so it's important in my view to make sure you never get to that position in the first place.A lot of people are unaware they pull when making that turn even in good conditions.
I think if we were to concentrate more in a particular area it is EFATO. People continue to die in take-off engine failure spins. I''m now teaching 'push to be light in the seat'. One student recently was really enthusiastic and I actually left my seat completely. Can't fault it, really. Note to self. Tighten lap strap more...

Oh, and another thing. The Chipmunk engine goes round a different way from most training aircraft. Being used to applying right rudder when selecting full power is going to spoil your day.

TOO


Fl1ingfrog 26th Jun 2022 09:12


I think if we were to concentrate more in a particular area it is EFATO. People continue to die in take-off engine failure spins.
A GASCo study some years ago identified that miss-handling turning onto final was very rare but of course it is an element that is practised on every flight. EFATO is in the main well catered for in the syllabus and is an important element of PPL training. Of course as with all things you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. All skills should be refreshed from time ti time to remain effective. However the GASCo study highlighted that the climbing turn following the take-off lead to miss-handling fatalities. This element of flight is not specifically catered for within the syllabus but should. There is opportunity within the stalling syllabus to include stalls in the climbing turn (take-off configuration) and of course practising this climbing turn during the climbing elements of the syllabus.

One cause of this climbing turn loss of control will be the abandonment of the traditional circuit pattern. Noise abatement procedures are often requiring an early turn after the take off whilst the aeroplane is still in the take-off configuration and at a low speed.

BigEndBob 27th Jun 2022 08:10

Unusual attitude flying should cover the climbing turn situation.

But in reality how many accidents happen from stalling on final turn (seeing that we don't fly Sopwith Camels) or climb out.

Better to practise a partial power loss in the climb out and return to field, that is quite a challenge and more likely to happen with cracked cylinder..
I also pre solo get students to fly a stuck flap circuit, that can also be tricky on some aircraft.

Genghis the Engineer 27th Jun 2022 16:33

Statistically, the go-around is actually most likely to cause a stall/spin fatal close to the ground, not either the final turn, nor initial climb-out. (The GASCo studying our Fl1ingfrog refers to covered that.)

G


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