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-   -   Converting licences etc (https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/634977-converting-licences-etc.html)

sarahkelly1234 22nd Aug 2020 17:39

Converting licences etc
 
Hi there,
Been focussing on ATPLs so nto given much attention to need for conversion etc in light of upcoming Brexit.
If my Medical (Class 2) is CAA, my PPL is CAA but my ATPLS will be Austro and my Flight Instructor Rating has not yet been completed, what do I need to convert to what If I'm intending to work as an instructor within the UK?
Thanks for your help here,
:)

timprice 22nd Aug 2020 17:53

Nothing you can do at present
 
If you have a UK EASA licence nothing you will automatically be given what ever they hand out, if you have any thing else EASA your stuck because you are not
allowed to have two EASA licence's ie from two different EASA countries so until something is sorted out, no one knows what will happen:ugh:

deltahotel 23rd Aug 2020 09:21

Have a look at the CAA microsite on Brexit. Accessed through the main CAA site Hard work to wade through. If you do decide to go for a change of SOLI to maintain an EASA licence, you may be running short of time depending on the efficiency (or otherwise) of the new authority.

Good luck

Whopity 23rd Aug 2020 10:25

If you are going for a commercial, it maters not where your ICAO PPL comes from. You don't need to convert anything. Your licence will be issued by whatever State you apply to for it which must have sponsored your training.

sarahkelly1234 24th Aug 2020 14:10

Thanks guys,
I'm Class 2 medical (so not commercial), I dont' get why if my medical is British, my PPL is brittish, my Instructor rating is british (and I want to work in britain) why do I need to convert everything just because my ATPLs (which I'm only doing because they are required for my Instructor rating) once I'm done, just happen to be Austro. Can I just convert my ATPL's (or will they not be automaticlaly converted when I do my British instructors course?)
Thanks,

Fl1ingfrog 24th Aug 2020 15:01

Sarakelly1234, sorry for my ignorance but I have no idea what or where "austro" is. You have a UK PPL licence and medical and wish to instruct within the UK. Why are you thinking of changing your licence and medical away from the UK? If you are doing the ATPL exams in order to instruct but do not intend to be an airline pilot, which you don't mention, then there is no need to do your ATPLs. For the PPL Instructor Rating you only need exams at CPL level. If you do the commercial exams ATPL/CPL, as you choose, in the UK that will be the simplest way. Same for the Instructor course.

Forget brexit at the moment, it is not helpful to speculate on that. People are over complicating things by bringing it into every discussion.

Whopity 24th Aug 2020 16:38

Your licence is issued by the State that issues your medical, that is up to you where you do it. Doing the ATPL exams has nothing to do with your medical or State of licence issue. If you simply want them for a FI rating then any EASA State is OK as they are just a demonstration of CPL level knowledge. If you want to instruct in UK just do the FI Course and have it added to your UK issued licence, no need to change anything. I wondered where Austro was, Australia? Austria?
If you ever want to teach commercial then you will need a CPL, your ATPL exams will expire after 3 years for licence or IR issue but they remain valid for a FI rating.

BillieBob 24th Aug 2020 16:48


...what do I need to convert to what If I'm intending to work as an instructor within the UK?
As things stand at present, nothing. Your licence and all of your ratings and certificates are issued and administered by the UK as this is the state that currently holds your medical records - that's the way EASA works. However, you can undertake the training and testing for the licence, ratings and certificates in any member state. You will receive a certificate from Austro-Control showing the exams that you have passed and this will be submitted to the UK CAA in support of your application for the FI Certificate.

Whopity just beat me to it.

sarahkelly1234 25th Aug 2020 13:51

Thank you so much for this advice, I had a hunch everything was okay, but then you start hearing from people telling you to do this and that, it gets confusing.
The Austro (ATPLs) are the european form of the CAA ATPLs,
Thanks,

Happy Wanderer 3rd Sep 2020 19:00

A possible problem here is that assuming there is no accommodation with EASA come the end of the transition period - as seems likely at the moment - a FI with a UK-specific licence and ratings (whether existing or inherited/converted from EASA following transition) will not be able to then instruct for an EASA licence/rating. My scenario, as my UK-based employer-ATO is currently in the throes of remaining an EASA ATO following transition. I don't wish to transfer my SOLI - if nothing else due to the exorbitant cost of doing so - and I do understand I can apply for a UK licence post-transition. There's also the sense that some sort of mutual agreement of licences between EASA and the UK might be reached at the 11th hour, in which case transferring SOLI now will have been a complete waste of money, time and effort. Anyone got a crystal ball?

HW

BillieBob 4th Sep 2020 09:35

You do not need to hold an EASA licence to instruct at an EASA ATO in a third country, which is what the UK becomes on 1 Jan. There are plenty of instructors at EASA ATOs in the US, for example, who do not hold EASA licences. What you will need is an FI certificate from the EASA state that approves your ATO. See FCL.900(c).

greeners 7th Sep 2020 00:01

Thanks BillieBob. Forgive my ignorance, does this cover FIs training for professional/commercial qualifications as well?

As I understand it, you are saying that an FI currently holding a UK EASA ATPL/CPL and FI qualifications, who will automatically receive a UK set of licences on 1st January 2021, will be able to teach for EASA qualifications as long as their UK ATO has been approved to become an EASA ATO and they get FI approval from the new governing EASA country?

Whopity 7th Sep 2020 08:57


who will automatically receive a UK set of licences on 1st January 2021,
You are not likely to "receive" anything new, your existing EASA Licence which is issued nationally in accordance with EASA standards remains a UK licence. Not shure how that will differ from the earlier pre EASA UK licence that many of us still hold.

To teach at an EASA approved ATO you will need to comply with FCL900(c).

(c) Instruction provided outside the territory of the Member States:

(1) By way of derogation from point (a), in the case of flight instruction provided during a training course approved in accordance with this Annex outside the territory for which Member States are responsible under the Chicago Convention, the competent authority shall issue an instructor certificate to applicants who:
(i) holds a pilot licence that meets all of the following criteria:
(A) it complies with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention;
(B) in any case, it is at least a CPL in the relevant aircraft category with a relevant rating or certificate;
(ii) complies with the requirements established in this Subpart for the issue of the relevant instructor certificate;
(iii) demonstrates to the competent authority an adequate level of knowledge of European aviation safety rules to be able to exercise instructional privileges in accordance with this Annex.

(2) The certificate shall be limited to providing flight instruction during a training course approved in accordance with this Annex which meets all of the following conditions:
(i) it is provided outside the territory for which Member States are responsible under the Chicago Convention;
(ii) it is provided to student pilots who have sufficient knowledge of the language in which flight instruction is provided.

BillieBob 7th Sep 2020 09:04

Pretty much, yes. There is no requirement to have ever held an EASA licence or FI certificate, you just need to hold at least a CPL with relevant rating(s) and certificate(s) issued by an ICAO member state.

(c) Instruction provided outside the territory of the Member States:

(1) By way of derogation from point (a), in the case of flight instruction provided during a training course approved in accordance with this Annex outside the territory for which Member States are responsible under the Chicago Convention, the competent authority shall issue an instructor certificate to applicants who:

(i) holds a pilot licence that meets all of the following criteria:

(A) it complies with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention;

(B) in any case, it is at least a CPL in the relevant aircraft category with a relevant rating or certificate;

(ii) complies with the requirements established in this Subpart for the issue of the relevant instructor certificate;

​​​​​​(iii) demonstrates to the competent authority an adequate level of knowledge of European aviation safety rules to be able to exercise instructional privileges in accordance with this Annex.

(2) The certificate shall be limited to providing flight instruction during a training course approved in accordance with this Annex which meets all of the following conditions:

(i) it is provided outside the territory for which Member States are responsible under the Chicago Convention;

(ii) it is provided to student pilots who have sufficient knowledge of the language in which flight instruction is provided.
All of the EASA approved training organisations in the US, for example, employ FIs, TRIs and SFIs who do not hold EASA licences.

Happy Wanderer 10th Sep 2020 23:49

EASA PPL training conducted in the US was brought to a virtual standstill some years ago when EASA insisted that FIs had to hold EASA certificates - it wasn’t and isn’t a quick-fix scenario. The problem this time round is how we go about getting EASA FI certificates (under FCL.900) on UK/non-EU licences after Dec 31st for ATO training approved by EASA going forward. Presumably we won’t be able to approach EASA until after transition (EASA approval for ATO training can be obtained beforehand), leaving FIs in limbo in the interim.

HW


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