90 day currency
must the three landings be P1, or can they be three landings with an instructor? before carrying passengers again
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Originally Posted by memories of px
(Post 10575064)
must the three landings be P1, or can they be three landings with an instructor? before carrying passengers again
If flying on a UK PPL or NPPL, you may fly with one other person who is also a pilot qualified on class or type, without having met the requirements of the 90 day rule. They must be informed of the fact that you are not current to carry passengers and you must also make it clear you are the pilot in command. This is known in the ANO as the ‘recent experience exception'. Can be with an instructor or solo, although it depends if you fly with a club as they may have more stringent rules. hope that helps PS |
so the easa ppl needs 3 solo landings after being checked out by an instructor, before taking passengers, he might as well have done a proficiency check with an examiner then he wouldnt need to do the 3 solo landings afterwards. thank you permanent standby for your post.
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Where is it stated you have to be solo when carrying out 3 landings?
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he might as well have done a proficiency check with an examiner then he wouldnt need to do the 3 solo landings afterwards. All that is required is 3 landings and take offs as the sole manipilator. |
Originally Posted by memories of px
(Post 10575483)
so the easa ppl needs 3 solo landings after being checked out by an instructor, before taking passengers, he might as well have done a proficiency check with an examiner then he wouldnt need to do the 3 solo landings afterwards. thank you permanent standby for your post.
Note that this is different to the expiry (and need for prof check) of your rating. Hope that makes sense? For the purists, 3 in 90 is technically for the rating not the licence itself. I.e you have to do it for each class, SEP & MEP or type. Your licence would still be valid if you hadn’t done it. (Assuming non expiring EASA version) |
very enlightening, many thanks to all for the clarification.
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FCL.060 Recent experience (b) Aeroplanes, helicopters, powered-lift, airships and sailplanes. A pilot shall not operate an aircraft in commercial air transport or carrying passengers: - (1) as PIC or co-pilot unless he/she has carried out, in the preceding 90 days, at least 3 take-offs, approaches and landings in an aircraft of the same type or class or an FFS representing that type or class. EASA do not define what they mean by "carried out" (no mention of "Pilot Flying" and certainly not a whisper of "as sole manipulator of the controls") therefore this terminology is open to interpretation. A pilot monitoring an Autopilot approach, all the way down to Autoland - Have they not carried out their required function for this phase of flight - and hence "carried out" an approach and landing? Pilots required to monitor other pilots during flight (Instructor with Student, Pilot Monitoring in multicrew operations) - During Approaches and Landing, are they not carrying out their required function - and hence "carrying out" an Approach and Landing? Isn't anyone who insists Recency only counts if the pilot was physically handling the aircraft guilty of using their own individual interpretation and thereby 'Gold Plating' the Regulations? It may be that FCL.060 Recent experience was not originally written in English and some specificity was lost in translation. My main point being that EASA continuously prove themselves incapable of writing unambiguous, easily understood rules and spend years thinking about re-drafts while expecting the aviation community to manage in the interim. |
My main point being that EASA continuously prove themselves incapable of writing unambiguous, easily understood rules and spend years thinking about re-drafts while expecting the aviation community to manage in the interim. TOO |
There is another piece of regulation where the wording has changed and become more vague. I was trying to find out where "sole manipulator" has gone and it looks as though it may have vanished with the JAA.
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' ... soul manipulator'
Are priests involved nowadays? |
Are priests involved nowadays? |
'Carrying out a take-off and landing' in a single pilot aeroplane would surely meet the 'Clapham omnibus' test of meaning - flying the aeroplane oneself.
Any other interpretation is just absurd and the sort of thing in which time-wasting barrack-room lawyers revel.... |
FCL.060 Recent experience (b) Aeroplanes, helicopters, powered-lift, airships and sailplanes. A pilot shall not operate an aircraft in commercial air transport or carrying passengers: - (1) as PIC or co-pilot unless he/she has carried out, in the preceding 90 days, at least 3 take-offs, approaches and landings in an aircraft of the same type or class or an FFS representing that type or class. Maybe it does not say ‘sole manipulator’ due to the fact that some multi pilot types require both pilots on the controls, the handling pilot does the flying bit whilst the non handler does the engines. Stretching the OP a little I know but maybe this is the reason for the regulation being a little grey. |
The 12 hour bit always seemed a waste of time, all pilots need is say a 60 day rule, just to stay current and then say every 2 years one flight with a instructor. Someone can do say 50 hours in the first 12 months and just miss out on the 12 second year.
I would have gone for say a total of 1 hour every 60 days to stay current. And that's all, If out then under the supervision of a instructor to gain the missing hour. We all knew years ago the 5 hours in 13 months was insufficient, but 6 hours, 1 every two months would have been better. I often tell my customers better to come down and do a couple of circuits every few weeks to stay current. It's what i did in the 80's when cash was short. |
Sole manipulator
It does say "sole manipulator" in the ANO. I cannot see any reference to this particular rule being a non-EASA only rule so I think it does apply.
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I cannot see any reference to this particular rule being a non-EASA only rule so I think it does apply. |
Originally Posted by Whopity
(Post 10582806)
The UK ANO is a book of Non EASA rules and is always superceeded by EASA Regulation. It applies to UK Registered Non EASA Aircraft only i.e. Annex 1
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gipsymagpie I cannot see "sole manipulator" in the ANO but that is, in any case, not relevant.
The ANO passes the buck to EASA (see below my italics), so one does need to know, and follow, what the EASA rules are. Requirement for appropriate licence to act as member of flight crew of EASA aircraft registered in the United Kingdom 136.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a person must not act as a pilot of an EASA aircraft that is registered in the United Kingdom— (a) without holding an appropriate licence granted, converted or rendered valid under the EASA Aircrew Regulation; For a Licence to be valid for CAT, or Passenger carrying, EASA only require that the 3 x T/Offs, Approaches and Landings in the previous 90 Days are "Carried Out" in the relevant Type, or Class, of aircraft. |
Gipsymagpie
The reference you quote is in Schedule 8 and subject to article 152 152.—(1) Subject to article 172, the CAA or a person approved by the CAA for that purpose must grant licences of any of the classes specified in Part 1 of Schedule 8, authorising the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of a non-EASA aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, if it is satisfied that the applicant is— (a) as pilot in command or co-pilot unless the holder has carried out, in the preceding 90 days, at least three take-offs, approaches and landings as the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft of the same type or class or a full flight simulator representing that type or class; |
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