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-   -   LAPL Annual Training Review by FAA instructor (https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/618537-lapl-annual-training-review-faa-instructor.html)

PDMG 18th Feb 2019 15:40

LAPL Annual Training Review by FAA instructor
 
The question surrounds a CAA issued LAPL (H) and the requirement to have within the last 12 months refresher training of at least 1 hour of flight time with an Instructor. Or the completing of additional flight time / take offs etc to meet requirements under the supervision of an instructor.

Can that supervision or refresher instruction be with an FAA instructor?

My intial answer is NO but I see a potential grey area in the wording and I’m being pressed by a colleague to take him up to get him current.

Of course the AFSP is another consideration but in theory could a suitable candidate on vacation in Florida could go up for an hour with an FAA instructor, get the tick in his book and by nature of no offical forms to complete the log book entry meets requirements?

And what if the LAPL Holder has access to an AC in the UK, could that supervision happen as two mates going flying providing the “requirements” are met?

Personally I air on the side caution when it comes into regulatory things but worth getting your thoughts for back-up ammunition!!


staticsource 18th Feb 2019 20:28


Originally Posted by PDMG (Post 10393780)
The question surrounds a CAA issued LAPL (H) and the requirement to have within the last 12 months refresher training of at least 1 hour of flight time with an Instructor. Or the completing of additional flight time / take offs etc to meet requirements under the supervision of an instructor.

Can that supervision or refresher instruction be with an FAA instructor?

My intial answer is NO but I see a potential grey area in the wording and I’m being pressed by a colleague to take him up to get him current.

Of course the AFSP is another consideration but in theory could a suitable candidate on vacation in Florida could go up for an hour with an FAA instructor, get the tick in his book and by nature of no offical forms to complete the log book entry meets requirements?

And what if the LAPL Holder has access to an AC in the UK, could that supervision happen as two mates going flying providing the “requirements” are met?

Personally I air on the side caution when it comes into regulatory things but worth getting your thoughts for back-up ammunition!!

No - not too sure where the grey area is? Look up GM1 FCL.005(a) to start with 👍

PDMG 18th Feb 2019 21:13

Perfect that’s exactly what I was looking for. Thanks

I saw grey as the CAA documentation only states instructor without specifying what they mean by “Instructor”. Whereas EASA clearly define it and of course the LAPL is issued under EASA.

That gives me what I need to fend off the requestor as I wanted. I guess I’ve been in FAA land too long to be able to find it straight away.

cheers again

rarelyathome 19th Feb 2019 06:50

It’s not because you’ve been in FAA land too long, it’s because much of this stuff is complicated (although not this example), poorly indexed and inconsistently laid out in Part FCL

PDMG 19th Feb 2019 11:36


Originally Posted by rarelyathome (Post 10394368)
It’s not because you’ve been in FAA land too long, it’s because much of this stuff is complicated (although not this example), poorly indexed and inconsistently laid out in Part FCL

yes nobody in any government affiliate is going to win any plain English awards are they lol

my next steps are EASA CPL etc but studying for those exams while working a 70-90 hour full time job outside the industry is difficult to manage!!

Fl1ingfrog 19th Feb 2019 11:57

Why can't the LAPL (H) holder use 1 hour of refresher training in the U.S with an FAA instructor for the purpose of self validation. The LAPL regulation only requires that refresher training is undertaken (plus the other requirements of course). The revalidation undertaken is not set down by EASA, Is refresher training a course of training which must be undertaken at an ATO/DTO? Below is the actual extract from the EASA bible (the formatting is mine);

GM1 FCL.135.A; FCL.135(H)

FCL.140.H LAPL(H) — Recency requirements (a) Holders of an LAPL(H) shall only exercise the privileges of their licence on a specific type when they have completed on helicopters of that type in the last 12 months:

(1) at least 6 hours of flight time as PIC, including 6 take-offs, approaches and landings; and

(2) refresher training of at least 1 hour total flight time with an instructor.

(b) Holders of an LAPL (H) who do not comply with the requirements in (a) shall:

(1) pass a proficiency check with an examiner on the specific type before they resume the exercise of the privileges of their licence; or

(2) perform the additional flight time or take-offs and landings, flying dual or solo under the supervision of an instructor, in order to fulfil the requirements in (a).

Could someone please provide a reference that prescribes who the instructor for the "refresher" must be?

BEagle 19th Feb 2019 13:24

'Instructor' in this EU document obviously means a flight instructor, not a driving instructor, diving instructor or lion-taming instructor...

Ipso facto, as the requirement for EU flight instructors is to hold a relevant instructor certificate issued in accordance with Part-FCL, then refresher training with an FAA instructor is not acceptable unless he/she also holds a Part-FCL pilot licence with relevant Class / Type Rating(s) plus instructor certificate.

staticsource 19th Feb 2019 13:30

Instructor
 
As mentioned before in GM1 above, the instructor must be of EASA origin unless specified as such, just because it only says instructor doesn’t necessarily mean any instructor - could it be a fixed wing instructor for instance?

Whopity 19th Feb 2019 14:24


could it be a fixed wing instructor for instance?
How could that possibly be relevant?

staticsource 19th Feb 2019 16:23


Originally Posted by Whopity (Post 10394752)
How could that possibly be relevant?

That was kind of my point 😉

BillieBob 20th Feb 2019 16:03


GM1 FCL.005
Whenever licences, ratings, approvals or certificates are mentioned in Part-FCL, these are meant to be valid licences, ratings, approvals or certificates issued in accordance with Part-FCL. In all other cases, these documents are specified
Within the terms of Part-FCL, an instructor must hold an instructor certificate and, in accordance with GM1 FCL.005 this must be a certificate issued in accordance with Part-FCL. A third country instructor can hold a Part-FCL instructor certificate without holding a Part-FCL licence (FCL900(c)). Such an instructor can conduct the required refresher training but only at an ATO located outside the EU.

staticsource 20th Feb 2019 18:37

Interesting point Billiebob. It would be interesting to see if someone has gone through the process.

There’s always a get out for the authorities as it states they (competent authority) may issue a certificate and that the FI complies with the requirements within the subpart.

It would be interesting to see what the CAA would require to fulfill this requirement?🤔 Probably sit all the CPL exams and carry out a full FI course!

Whopity 21st Feb 2019 11:10

Of course a LAPL is not valid in a country outside the EU however; that is not to say you can't do dual training there, but as its training, you would need an appropriate Visa!

BEagle 21st Feb 2019 12:55

The LAPL is valid in all EASA Member States, not just the EU!

timprice 22nd Feb 2019 18:06

There is hope for us yet then!, even if were out of EU, we could be a member of EASA, they are looking for world wide domination.:8


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