DTO
 

Any one know any more, been looking for further information, about when they might start?:sad:

They can start the minute it becomes EC Law however; that will not be until 6 months after the document is posted in the European Parliament. I am not sure if that has happened yet, but you can take the cue from whenever that happens.

A useful EASA presentation here

The CAA has published CAP 1637 which looks much more complicated.

Thanks
 

Thanks Whopity, I have already seen that.(EASA presentation)
Ah well will just have to wait.:rolleyes:

The intention was for the Regulation to be published in time for it to become effective on 8 April with a 12-month implementation period to allow all RFs to become DTOs by 8 April 2019. Predictably, however, this has not happened - the EC have screwed around with the Opinion from EASA and the UK CAA has gold-plated the result out of all recognition.

The consequence is that, instead of the light-touch regime we were promised, we will eventually get something that is not dissimilar in its requirements to the ATO but with a nominal 5 year oversight schedule to allow the CAA to manage with its current, inadequate bunch of inspectors.

Completely agree, the nonsense coming out of the UK CAA is simply astonishing!

If it makes it even slightly simpler at least that's something, plus hoping not as costly! Time wise.:sad:

How can it possibly be cheaper than RTF's which for many years there was no charge and currently is 102 quid per year.

Having looked through CAP 1637 I have to agree with Whopity it appears an awful lot more complicated and I very much hope alot of the gold plating doesn't come to fruition.

For those who haven't noticed:

Wow wonder if that allows type rating training on helicopters?

Yes, as follows:

Cannot locate SRG 2143?

The SRG2144 is available but not the 2143.
Could the CAA have been caught on the hop again, after all its only been law for a week!

Thanks Whopity, very interesting up to 5 seats for type rating training on DTO.

Sorry, I've missed something. Where is the limitation of "5 seats" for type rating training in the document?

DTO.GEN.110Scope of the training

Whopity thanks, I skimmed over the helicopter bits. Sorry, I promise to do better next time.

5 seats makes it interesting for Bell 206 5 seats, but Longranger 7 seats? but would that be allowed under difference's as in same group?

Anything that complires with the Regulation is allowed. The DTO would be limited to type ratings on the 5 seater. Differences training does not require a DTO or ATO so does not enter into the equation its a seperate issue.

No training is permitted on the Longranger within a DTO. Differences training is only a separate issue until the next change to Part-FCL when, with the exception of SEP and MEP aeroplanes, all differences training will have to be done in an ATO or DTO (and approved, leading to the inevitable fee).

The plot thickens? thanks to Whopity and Billie Bob for your assistance.
Tim:)

So the CAA tell me that the application form is SRG 2145, and not 2143 as published!!!!

They have actually replaced the page since the weekend and amended it to say SRG2145. They have also made the page look as though it was there from before 2nd Sept!

They struggle too to use the correct spelling for principle and principal.. All principals were principles in V3, they did a global change when the error was pointed out and now all principles are principals in V4. Lets see what V5 shows.

SRG 2145 is wrong as well where it refers to Principle Place of Business

Priceless.

Firstly they drove out all those with knowledge; then they removed the more expensive clerical staff with experience; now they are left with nothing but tick box checkers.

Lets tick the boxes and keep going forward;)

Flicking though SRG2145 and CAP1637 but it seems to be way more involved than what was required to be a RTF. And I thought everything was for a lighter more proportional touch.

There appears to be a huge amount of additional work and I mean masses. All of which I am sure will require auditing and for the life of me I can't see the bill only coming to 55 quid a year.

Indeed, but just follow the EASA Brief

Starts at £55 until they work out it will then require ravelling etc on top, unless it goes out to industry? you never know?:O

Has anyone applied for DTO yet?
Also do you think it may be delayed until Sept 2019 instead of April 2019 ?...

There is no Application involved, you make a Declaration
No, it was implemented into EU Law on 2 Sept 2018 and from that date anyone can make a declaration.

I think Danny Boy, means has anyone made a declaration yet?:ok:

I believe so.

13 so far - see https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviati...Organisations/

Always someone keen to jump on the bus and take the back seat.
Me i will wait for the next bus, it won't be long.

New schools DTO or do they have to be ATO?

I'm waiting a little longer too B.E.B. Need to know if we'll still be able to add the IRR to EASA licences beyond April and/or the BIR. I've written to the APPG in the vain hope some common sense might result from their intervention................

I don't want to be an ATO but if they take away another income stream I may have to.

If you want to do anything more than LAPL/PPL, SEP, TMG, Night & Aerobatics Ratings then you need to be an ATO.

I'm looking though AMC1 DTO.GEN.115(a)(5) Declaration and also trying to fill out SRG2145 of which section 8 "training aircraft" states you need to supply the aircraft type and registration. However DTO.GEN.115(a)(5) states

"The list on the declaration of aircraft used by the DTO should contain at least the models used for training (e.g. Cessna 152, Piper PA 28, Robinson R22 ,etc.). It is not necessary to list on the declaration each individual aircraft with its registration mark"

So does that mean in Section 8 of SRG2145 I simply put Not Applicable with respect to aircraft registration?

The simple answer is to fill in the items required by the regulation and say nothing more. If the CAA raise an observation, then ask them for the reference.

I guess quite a few people like us will be using this festive season to polish our Declarations, so there'll be a pile of them in January for the CAA to go through. I understand they've 60 days to accept a Declaration, which doesn't leave much time if they take the 60 days and then reject it - potentially we could be temporarily out of busines in April if there are snags.

Incidentally, we're still plugging away with IR(R) courses - got 2 on the go at the moment - as they aren't part of being a DTO. As far as I can tell, they'll still be a valid course after April.

TOO

Whopity's approach is spot on. If CAA say 'what about this or that bit of gold plating that you've not provided?' ask them to clarify exactly where it is required in the Regulation. If its not in the Regulation then politly tell them where to get off.