PPRuNe Forums - Failed LPC becomes PUT

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)

- Flying Instructors & Examiners (https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners-17/)

- - Failed LPC becomes PUT (https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/589364-failed-lpc-becomes-put.html)

Failed LPC becomes PUT

Does anyone have to hand the reference that defines a failed LPC or LST as becoming PUT?

CAP 804 Section 1 Part E Para 9 Table Item J

Quote:

Pilot undergoing any form of flight test with a EASA or CAA Authorised Examiner (other than case K).

PICUS for successful Test P/UT for unsuccessful test (including partial pass)

Thanks Whoppity. Is there anything that links to Part FCL for this?

This is a specifically UK interpretation that is not supported by EU regulations. In fact, according to the regulation, the use of PICUS is restricted to multi-pilot operations.

Hmmmm, OK so what is the EU regs stance?

Quote:

FCL.050 Recording of flight time
The pilot shall keep a reliable record of the details of all flights flown in a form and manner established by the competent authority.

No mention of tests or how to log it in the regulation

Quote:

AMC1 FCL.050 Recording of flight time
(1) PIC flight time:
(i) the holder of a licence may log as PIC time all of the flight time
during which he or she is the PIC;

(4) instruction time: a summary of all time logged by an applicant for a
licence or rating as flight instruction, instrument flight instruction,
instrument ground time, etc., may be logged if certified by the
appropriately rated or authorised instructor from whom it was received;

(5) PICUS flight time: provided that the method of supervision is acceptable
to the competent authority, a co-pilot may log as PIC flight time flown as
PICUS when all the duties and functions of PIC on that flight were carried
out in such a way that the intervention of the PIC in the interest of safety
was not required.

Quote:

Does anyone have to hand the reference that defines a failed LPC or LST as becoming PUT?

You are asking the question the wrong way round:

The Examiner will always be Captain and so will Log PIC in all cases.
Therefore, in Single Pilot Aeroplanes, the Candidate can only be PUT unless there is a rule somewhere that stipulates otherwise - and in the UK there is, but this applies only to successful tests.

So, as Whopity quoted, there is a reference that defines a passed LPC or LST as becoming PICUS.

I know I am asking the question the wrong way round. There is method in my madness....... ;)

If a candidate takes an LPC and an NAA negates the LPC the flight becomes a training flight. If the NAA then says that it can't be a training flight because it was an LPC where do you stand......

Quote:

Originally Posted by bose-x (Post 9637268)

Interesting scenario. I assume 'real life'?

Ask the NAA concerned as the only other option I can think of would be the PIC (Examiner) carried
a passenger that they allowed to fly the aircraft and, I would assume, a fare paying passenger at
that!

Yep, real life.

I asked the NAA to tell me how they think it should be logged with no response other than they do not deem it a training flight!!

bose-x
Is this the same situation as you described in your Post "Training Rejection Conundrum..."?

I would suggest that the flight was a DUAL flight so the Candidate would Log PUT, but that the NAA is saying that they will not accept it as a required Training flight for the purposes of EASA Licencing

Yeah, it's linked to that.

Since the NAA are unable to state what they consider to be a required training flight and unable to say what they think the flight should be logged as I am no further forward!!

Candidate has now done four training sessions where FCL.740 SUGGESTS two. They have over ridden me as Head of Training but are unprepared to actually make a statement of exactly what they want!! This is a Type Rates aircraft we are discussing not a cheap SEP.

I have never seen anything like it!