R/H seat P1 legal or not?
 

When joining a group, or becoming familiar with a new aircraft, it's common practice to get up-to-speed with an experienced pilot in the r/h seat who's not an instructor.

Taking the UK, and either a Group A or Permit a/c, and assuming both pilots have relevant licences, is it legal to operate as P1 from the r/h seat to give the l/h seat occupant operating experience?

I've had several cases where the insurance aspect is considered a 'grey area' (from the insurance broker, having been asked for advice).

One factor is whether the a/c is fully operable from the r/h seat, I assume.

But is this sort of operation defined anywhere?

Obviously only one pilot will be logging the hours, and in this particular case, it will P1 in the r/h seat

Doesn't matter where you log it from, as long as it is only one pilot logging the time.

Don't flight instructors log P1? Don't they sit in the right?

It is usual, but not mandatory, for the Captain to sit on the left.
I would suggest this is because, in the event of an incident/claim, both qualified pilots suddenly decide they were not PIC and state they were only passengers. In this instance one could see why an insurance company would assume that the occupant of the left hand seat was the Captain.

Ensure that who will be PIC, and who (just) a passenger, is decided prior to flight (preferably record that somewhere in writing) and neither plan to change, nor change PIC in flight.

In the scenario posted both pilots' would be legal to fly the aircraft but one is unfamiliar with it and the other experienced.

The experienced pilot should be PIC and the 'unfamiliar' pilot a passenger (who will not log anything for the flight).

Because this is not an 'Instructional' flight the passenger cannot pay for it; however the pilot can cost share with the passenger - and, with the new rules, as long as the PIC pays at least one pence towards the cost with the Pax paying the balance then it falls within the rules for a private flight.

If there were limitations on where the P1 should/can sit they would be in section 2 of the POH and for tailwheel aircraft there is often a 'This aircraft must not be flown solo from X or Y seat' statement in there.

Not found one yet for your average training aircraft...

As has already been pointed out instructors fly from either seat without any insurance issues and often I sit RHS when flying solo as it's my normal perspective.

Also as has already been said - sort out who is P1 (and make sure they're covered from an insurance point of view) and THEY sign the techlog prior to departure.

Top tip ! Not so easy from the right seat when things are not right such as wind or unexpected actions from prospective group member

That is why instructors spend a fair bit of time in training learning how to cope from that side and when to intervene

Be very wary of taking on such a role without training

Disregarding the light aircraft situation you mention, I have sat in the RH many, many times with a new captain in the left on their first ever flight.

Of course it's legal - if you are so qualified.

.... and the books (Ops Manual/AFM etc) say so.

My understanding has always been that unless the pilot's operating manual (which forms part of the C of A) states that the aircraft can only be flown solo from a certain seat, rear/front or left/right then as long as he/she can reach all the controls then the solo pilot can occupy either seat.

In relation to dual flight or instruction, the pilot in command should be able to reach both controls, but oddly for example, there may be some instructors may not be able to reach all controls, for example in a PA28, the fuel cock from the right hand seat, so should in that case they instruct from the right hand seat. This is a muddy pool.

It's all down to good practice and common sense, operate within the POH and you should be covered in terms of insurance and any subsequent litigation.

The OP's question was relating to two qualified pilots flying the aircraft so any limitation on solo flying is irrelevant. The Aircraft Commander may sit in either seat (subject to his competence and any local rules such as flying club orders or Ops Manuals).

I sent a pilot (an instructor) to fly a TB10 solo in the right seat last week after flying a type familiarization flight with him; he was, of course PIC on that flight!

I flew two flights today as Pilot in Command and instructor, the student and I swapped seats for the second flight because the training course he is undertaking required him to experience flying the aeroplane from both seats.

There is no restriction requiring the instructor to be able to operate all the controls from whichever seat he occupies. When I flew the second flight today I was sitting in a seat from which I could not reach many of the critical controls. In this case you had better be sure that the pilot in the other seat fully understands how to operate the controls which you can not reach yourself!!

If there were any statement in a POH saying "the pilot in command must occupy ..." then that would have to be respected but I have never seen such a statement.

Last word; if you are going to fly from an unfamiliar seat make sure that you know how to operate all the controls from that seat and that you can handle all normal and non-normal procedures from there. Don't just do it without training!

Happy landings

3 Point

Many thanks for the responses - seriously useful info....

Decathlon POH states something about only flying as PIC from the front I think although I don't have one to hand.

there is nothing preventing it.

Now the safest thing to do is just ask your insurance company. Then go flying and forget about it.

If the Decathalon POH really does require "flying as PIC from the front" then how would an instructor sit in the back to teach a student in the front? I suspect that it will say that the aeroplane is to be flown "solo" from the front seat only. This is likely due to weight and balance or to the fact that some controls can not be reached from the back seat. Flying solo is different from flying with two people in the aeroplane and the Pilot in Command in the "wrong" seat.

Happy landings

3 Pont

PS I just found a Decathalon POH on-line; it says "Solo from the front seat only"

There are many problems with "experienced" syndicate members teaching/helping/guiding new members. The biggest one is that they are not instructors. The next is that they have often not had any tuition for years are and have forgotten some of the essentials. The next is that many syndicates re-write the manufacturer's AOM/POM, believing that various sections are wrong or don't apply. Then the non-instructor tries to teach the syndicate's codswollop to the new member. And finally, should the aircraft have a little problemette, who is PIC? The best syndicates have access to a instructor who will officially teach the new guy.

PM