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VFR at night (UK airspace)
I seem to recall there was a proposal to allow VFR at night in the UK which was mooted last year to bring us into line with much of Europe.
Can anyone please tell me what the current situation is in this respect? Thanks for any assistance. |
Bob,
It has already happened... See here: IN-2012/145: Introduction of Visual Flight Rules (VFR) at Night in the UK | Publications | About the CAA Effectively, my understanding is that they had to make the change to comply with the EASA Aircrew Regulation (which states that, in order to fly IFR, one must have an instrument qualification). Therefore, the CAA have issued an exemption to the current ANO in order to be able to fly VFR at night (for those who don't hold an IMC/IR etc.). That's my understanding anyway - all in the IN. |
LAI, thanks for that!
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Can I just check, then, in response to a query from one of my (school) pupils who is doing a PPL and regards me as the font of all knowledge:
Is it now the case that holders of a UK issued EASA PPL without IR or IR(R) are NOT allowed to fly IFR in VMC, OCAS? When I did my PPL they were, and now I have an IR(R) I've not worried about the distinction, but clearly this is an important one for a new vanilla PPL. |
Is it now the case that holders of a UK issued EASA PPL without IR or IR(R) are NOT allowed to fly IFR in VMC, OCAS? |
[QUOTE]...holders of a UK issued EASA PPL without IR or IR(R) are NOT allowed to fly IFR in VMC, OCAS[QUOTE]
It seems inconceivable that pilots flying in VMC, outside controlled airspace who choose to subject themselves to a more stringent set of rules than are requoired of them are acting illegally. There must have been some kind of cockup here when someone wrote 'IFR' when they really meant 'IMC', or '...in circumstances where IFR flight is required' MJ:ok: |
Not only is that correct, it has been the case since 1999 when the JAA licence was introduced! meaning both UK National PPLs and UK issued JAR-FCL PPLs. Same way that all UK issued Licences (including JAR) without any additional ratings only gave privileges to fly in visibility greater than 3km - rather than the JAR minimum of 1.5km. Anyhow that is now all in the past. It seems inconceivable that pilots flying in VMC, outside controlled airspace who choose to subject themselves to a more stringent set of rules than are requoired of them are acting illegaly. There must have been some kind of cockup here "Here is a Licence that gives you the privilege to fly under VFR" as compared to "Here is a Licence that gives you the privilege to fly under VFR or IFR dependant on the weather conditions and Class of Airspace" |
I suspect it nothing to do with vanilla PPL's to be honest.
Its in there to shut a loophole for people building IFR time for single crew ops and IRI ratings. |
Its in there to shut a loophole for people building IFR time for single crew ops and IRI ratings. We're making a distinction between flying 'under IFR' and flying 'in acordance with IFR'. MJ:ok: |
What VFR rule are you contravening flying an IFR flight profile in class G?
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Don't think that is correct at all. CAA always referred to UK Licences, JAR–FCL 1.175 Circumstances in which an IR(A) is required (a) The holder of a pilot licence (A) shall not act in any capacity as a pilot of an aeroplane under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), except as a pilot undergoing skill testing or dual training, unless the holder has an instrument rating (IR(A)) appropriate to the category of aircraft issued in accordance with JAR–FCL. (b) In JAA Member States where national legislation requires flight in accordance with IFR under specified circumstances (e.g. at night), the holder of a pilot licence may fly under IFR, provided that pilot holds a qualification appropriate to the circumstances, airspace and flight conditions in which the flight is conducted. National qualifications permitting pilots to fly in accordance with IFR other than in VMC without being the holder of a valid IR(A) shall be restricted to use of the airspace of the State of licence issue only. "Here is a Licence that gives you the privilege to fly under VFR or IFR dependant on the weather conditions and Class of Airspace" |
yep and it was used by some to log IFR hours to get past experience requirements.
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We're making a distinction between flying 'under IFR' and flying 'in acordance with IFR'. |
IFR has nothing to do with weather! There must have been some kind of cockup here when someone wrote 'IFR' when they really meant 'IMC', or '...in circumstances where IFR flight is required' A VMC only privilege means VFR or IFR, but for IFR to be allowed depends totally on the weather. |
VMC or IMC is wx conditions
IFR and VFR are flight rules. If the pilot decides to claim certain rules when they are not compliant with the rule book that's up to the authority to prove that they are operating illegally. The again if your flying without taking a service in class G nobody has clue what you are doing . |
My now non-current UK PPL has a Night Rating in it, which allows/ed me to fly at night under VFR.
Did something change? I need to catch up. |
Originally Posted by mad_jock
(Post 8393480)
VMC or IMC is wx conditions
IFR and VFR are flight rules. If the pilot decides to claim certain rules when they are not compliant with the rule book that's up to the authority to prove that they are operating illegally. The again if your flying without taking a service in class G nobody has clue what you are doing . G |
Did something change? I need to catch up. Prior to July(?) 2013 flight at night in the UK was mandatory IFR. As, without an instrument qualification of some sort, EASA Licences only allow VFR flight then, if the UK rules had not changed, a lot of pilots would not have been able to exercise their Night Rating privileges. My now non-current UK PPL has a Night Rating in it, which allows/ed me to fly at night under VFR. Prior to July last year night flight in the UK was mandatory IFR. A UK PPL allowed flight by VFR, or flight by IFR provided IFR was not mandatory. The Night Rating added the privilege to fly IFR at night outside of controlled airspace provided VMC (plus the min 3km Viz Licence restriction) was maintained (SVFR being required to transit Class D CTZs for example). Now, a UK PPL with Night Rating will allow VFR flight at night; but only because the UK rules have changed to allow night flying to be conducted VFR. |
but realistically G if you compare VFR rules and IFR rules its only the IMC bit you can't do.
Instrument approaches are perfectly legal under VFR rules. The reason why its defined as VFR only is to stop you using class A. |
Hi, having not flown at night for a while can I clarify when operating VFR night flight within a class D CTZ, will it still be classed as Svfr for the clearance ? And VFR when outside controlled airspace?? Thanks.
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