Initial training : Slip Yes ……Slip no
In a slipping PA-28 the high wing tank is capable of feeding the engine continuously but the low wing tank cannot feed the engine unless the slip is shallow and the tank close to full.
When providing instruction in sustained full rudder slips the instructor should be smart enough to ensure the appropriate tank is selected. There is no risk of fuel starvation with the high wing tank selected unless that tank is empty.
I flew 172 models before and after the flap extension was limited. They all are capable of a full rudder slip and nothing bad happens. I never considered the "Avoid" placard any more limiting than the maximum demonstrated crosswind. More on C-172 flaps and slips here - C172 flap question
When providing instruction in sustained full rudder slips the instructor should be smart enough to ensure the appropriate tank is selected. There is no risk of fuel starvation with the high wing tank selected unless that tank is empty.
I flew 172 models before and after the flap extension was limited. They all are capable of a full rudder slip and nothing bad happens. I never considered the "Avoid" placard any more limiting than the maximum demonstrated crosswind. More on C-172 flaps and slips here - C172 flap question
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See UK aircrew regulation PART-FCL, Subpart C, Section 1, AMC1 FCL.210, (c) (2) (x) (D).. Side slipping should be taught on light aircraft except where not allowed for the type.
However those teaching future airline pilots, CPL and especially UPRT should emphasize the guidance for transport aircraft handling found in AUPRTA Rev 3 and also reflected in FCTM for types such as B737. In transport aircraft side slip should not be used intentionally as a means of creating drag (Gimli glider not withstanding). Other than cross wind landings, transport aircraft should normally be flown in balance. In upset recovery handling, aileron is always the primary means of roll control. However, if you attempt to roll using ailerons but cannot achieve the desired roll rate, a small amount of rudder may be used to achieve the desired roll rate. Only a small amount of rudder is required. Too much rudder applied too quickly or held too long can lead to loss of control or structural damage. Rapid rudder reversals are to be avoided.
However those teaching future airline pilots, CPL and especially UPRT should emphasize the guidance for transport aircraft handling found in AUPRTA Rev 3 and also reflected in FCTM for types such as B737. In transport aircraft side slip should not be used intentionally as a means of creating drag (Gimli glider not withstanding). Other than cross wind landings, transport aircraft should normally be flown in balance. In upset recovery handling, aileron is always the primary means of roll control. However, if you attempt to roll using ailerons but cannot achieve the desired roll rate, a small amount of rudder may be used to achieve the desired roll rate. Only a small amount of rudder is required. Too much rudder applied too quickly or held too long can lead to loss of control or structural damage. Rapid rudder reversals are to be avoided.
Last edited by Rivet gun; 19th May 2024 at 11:05.
I find this discussion, which comes up from time to time, absolutely baffling and bizarre.
Not knowing confidently how to use a slip to reduce height in a glide approach or simulated engine failure means you don’t know how to fly the aeroplane. End of story.
Not knowing confidently how to use a slip to reduce height in a glide approach or simulated engine failure means you don’t know how to fly the aeroplane. End of story.
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Having used Cessnas a lot, a forward slip with flaps extended is prohibited on several of their models. With that in the back of your mind you need to look elsewhere to adjust the descent profile for a forced landing. As Whopity said, flaps are a good tool to use and we trained the students to get to an appropriate 1000' point while aiming a third of the way down the strip, then use flaps to adjust as needed and bring the touchdown point nearer to the beginning of the strip.
Once you're in an actual emergency situation, anything goes of course. With that in mind I might use a forward slip if needed. I'm not too fussed about using the aircraft again if I can at least walk away from it in one piece.
The trouble is that if you train a student to use the manouvre on a regular basis, the student will continue to use it and may get him/her/itself into trouble later on. I am basing this on teaching on an integrated course. The situation is different in the gliding world and may be different in a strictly PPL/LAPL environment.
Once you're in an actual emergency situation, anything goes of course. With that in mind I might use a forward slip if needed. I'm not too fussed about using the aircraft again if I can at least walk away from it in one piece.
The trouble is that if you train a student to use the manouvre on a regular basis, the student will continue to use it and may get him/her/itself into trouble later on. I am basing this on teaching on an integrated course. The situation is different in the gliding world and may be different in a strictly PPL/LAPL environment.
A forward slip is not prohibited on any Cessna SEP as far as I know. As was noted in an earlier post several models note in the "Normal Operating" section of the POH that slips with more than 20 degs of flaps should be "avoided" due to a possible pitch down moment generated and tail plane buffeting. These effects are completely controllable. It is unfortunate that so many instructors don't seem know what is in the POH and do not understand the difference between "limitations" and POH notes.
Ab initio pilots should be taught to use all of the controls to make the airplane do what they want it to do. I think the forward slip is required instruction for 4 reasons
1) It represents progressive learning and skill development from the initial attitudes and movements lessons. The required cross controlling in a slip builds skills in managing yaw and bank in both turns and straight line flight paths
2) The side slip works better for cross wind landings for many airplanes and should be in the tool box for every airplane, including some large aircraft. For example every cross wind landing I did in the Convair 580 was with a side slip.
3) The PPL is a license to fly any light airplane. Many don't have flaps so they need to know how to slip
4) If the engine fails a forward slip or even a slipping turn may be necessary to save a too high approach
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I am also at a bit of a loss why some instructors seem so averse to slipping. My suspicion is that they may lack confidence in demonstrating it themselves and are happy to fall back on some spurious reasoning. I think it is a crucial skill particularly in the engine failure (landing in whatever field is available) scenario. I regularly instruct on an Aeroprakt A32 with just one flap setting (a limitation in Germany at least) and I think pulling off a reasonable field landing without being able to slip would be beyond most average pilots.
