Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

Best route to FI

Old 24th Sep 2023, 14:24
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Best route to FI

Hi everyone,

Having recently renewed my PPL and SEP Iím very keen on the idea of working towards an FI rating.

Iím likely too long in the tooth and too old to be desirable to airline sponsored schemes but think FI alongside my ďday jobĒ would not only be a great way to give my flying a purpose, but be something to work towards as a retirement job.

I appreciate there are various reasons people get into instructing, as career instructors or to build hours to then move on to the airlines etc.

Iíd really appreciate advice/direction on how best to do this in the UK, alongside working full time.

Currently have 110hrs and a Class 2 medical, based in the North East.

thank you
GWK
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 07:03
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 901
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
CPL or ATPL exams.
MrAverage is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 09:26
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So, do those over the next couple of years while building hours?

I assume if I just wanted to FI then sticking at PPL is fine, no need to do CPL etc.
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 14:00
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
What do you need to be a flight instructor UK?
Flight Instructor Course Minimum requirements (FI)
  • Hold a valid pilots licence, which includes a valid Single Engine Piston (Land) rating.
  • Meet the knowledge requirements for the grant of a EASA CPL (A). note: the exam passes are time limited.
  • Have at least a CPL (A) or have completed at least 200 hours of flight time of which 150 hours as Pilot-in-Command if holding a PPL (A): Note: there is a minimum PIC flying cross country experience including a 300nm x/country. The CPL knowledge only requires having passed the CPL exams. (There is no requirements to have completed the flying for a CPL).
  • Pass the FI skill test.
There is further detail to consider as part of the flying experience and the flight instructor schools normally detail this for you. The best advice, in my opinion, is to have most if not all of the required flying experience before sitting the exams.

There is not a specific requirement to have passed the CPL exams. Note: without the CPL exams passed you will be limited to what you can teach such as NO PPL course training.

Last edited by Fl1ingfrog; 25th Sep 2023 at 14:26.
Fl1ingfrog is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 14:20
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: near an airplane
Posts: 2,786
Received 50 Likes on 41 Posts
Don't underestimate the demands of a FI course! It will require quite a bit of work and will also force you to re-evaluate a lot of your own flying. I would seriously suggest building up your hours significantly before starting with this. Try to get as far over the 200 hours/150 hrs PIC as your time and budget allows, simply because it will build up a store of experience that you can dip into as an instructor.
Jhieminga is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 14:22
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you. I was thinking similar. Get the hours and experience up to where it needs to be first, incorporating a night rating and IR(R) within that.

GWK
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 14:23
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jhieminga
Don't underestimate the demands of a FI course! It will require quite a bit of work and will also force you to re-evaluate a lot of your own flying. I would seriously suggest building up your hours significantly before starting with this. Try to get as far over the 200 hours/150 hrs PIC as your time and budget allows, simply because it will build up a store of experience that you can dip into as an instructor.
All noted, thank you!


GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 16:51
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,198
Received 133 Likes on 60 Posts
Originally Posted by Jhieminga
Don't underestimate the demands of a FI course! It will require quite a bit of work and will also force you to re-evaluate a lot of your own flying. I would seriously suggest building up your hours significantly before starting with this. Try to get as far over the 200 hours/150 hrs PIC as your time and budget allows, simply because it will build up a store of experience that you can dip into as an instructor.
My personal experience teaching the Instructor Rating is that even most low time CPLís do not have a sufficiently high level of personal flying skills to properly demonstrate most maneuvers. The first 5 (or more) hours of dual is fixing this deficit and then we can actually start the instructor course.

My advice is for all the personal flying you do prior to your course, be very hard on yourself. 50 ft too high, fix it. 2 knots too fast on approach, fix it, Ball 1/4 out of the cage on climb out fix it. Accurate flying is a choice, choose to be better with every flight. I guarantee you this will be immediately noticed and appreciated by you instructor
Big Pistons Forever is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 17:16
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you and duly noted.

As I said, I want to give my flying an objective. Flying ďlocalĒ flights will soon have me lose interest which is why I stopped flying.

This route will give me something to work towards (while all the while improving my skills).

Thank you, again.
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2023, 18:03
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
incorporating a night rating and IR(R) within that.
​​​​​​​Excellent.
Fl1ingfrog is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2023, 06:00
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,976
Received 32 Likes on 14 Posts
How old is 'long in the tooth' ? You should definitely consider IRR, CBIR and CPL - you'll need 150 hours PIC as a PPL FI but only 100 hours as a CPL, so it shouldn't cost you much more.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2023, 06:49
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rudestuff
How old is 'long in the tooth' ? You should definitely consider IRR, CBIR and CPL - you'll need 150 hours PIC as a PPL FI but only 100 hours as a CPL, so it shouldn't cost you much more.
Very almost 40. And noted re: the CPL suggestion. I suppose that opens up other options in the future too. I wasnít aware of the CBIR so thank you for that.

I didnít really think of CPL as an option, of course the medical requirements are higher but I donít know of any reason why that would be an issue.

Thank you.
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2023, 08:27
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,580
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Something to be aware of is that to become a FI with a PPL you need 300 hours and with a CPL only 200 so its cheaper to go the CPL route if you are starting from scratch. As stated the CPL exams have a 3 year time limit for obtaining a CPL, but not for becoming a FI so get the CPL then do an FI course.
Whopity is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2023, 12:57
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Whopity
Something to be aware of is that to become a FI with a PPL you need 300 hours and with a CPL only 200 so its cheaper to go the CPL route if you are starting from scratch. As stated the CPL exams have a 3 year time limit for obtaining a CPL, but not for becoming a FI so get the CPL then do an FI course.
Isnít it 200hrs with 150 PIC as above?

And if I only ever want to instruct then CPL with Class 1 etc may be overkillÖand could cost more.
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2023, 15:22
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,795
Received 270 Likes on 109 Posts
Whopity, surely the 300hr TT is for a CRI applicant as stated in FCL.915.CRI(b)(1)? Whereas a PPL holding FI applicant needs to have completed at least 200 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or TMGs, of which 150 hours as PIC as stated in FCL.915.FI(b)(2)(ii)?
BEagle is online now  
Old 27th Sep 2023, 16:12
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BEagle
Whopity, surely the 300hr TT is for a CRI applicant as stated in FCL.915.CRI(b)(1)? Whereas a PPL holding FI applicant needs to have completed at least 200 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or TMGs, of which 150 hours as PIC as stated in FCL.915.FI(b)(2)(ii)?
That was my understanding too.

Next step for me is some meaningful hours building, with the criteria in mind (and quality of flying also in mind).
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2023, 19:33
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,976
Received 32 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by GolfWhiskyKilo
Very almost 40. And noted re: the CPL suggestion. I suppose that opens up other options in the future too. I wasnít aware of the CBIR so thank you for that.

I didnít really think of CPL as an option, of course the medical requirements are higher but I donít know of any reason why that would be an issue.

Thank you.
...so 30s then. Hardly old! Are you simply not interested in an airline job? You would have a 20+ year flying career ahead of you. Go and get a class one initial and decide from there. You're in an enviable position being about £25k away from a fATPL during a time of unprecedented hiring.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2023, 21:26
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: North East
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rudestuff
...so 30s then. Hardly old! Are you simply not interested in an airline job? You would have a 20+ year flying career ahead of you. Go and get a class one initial and decide from there. You're in an enviable position being about £25k away from a fATPL during a time of unprecedented hiring.
Oh Iím very interested! Do you think itís doable within 25k? Class 1, hours building, CPL/IR etc?

25k makes it tempting!

The recent BA thing has got me interested again, but 18+ months without an income would be very hard to swallow and I would 100% get a lot from instructing.

Are you saying I should bite the bullet?!
GolfWhiskyKilo is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2023, 19:14
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,580
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Appologies on the numbers, I've been doing this too long and mixing up the various requirements. In my experience, those who go from PPL to FI take around 300 hours. It is indeed 150 hrs PIC post PPL wheras with a CPL the requirement is only 100 hours PIC to obtain a CPL; a reduction of 50 hours. As the CPL course is only 25 hours it is a false economy not to do the CPL, especially as the exams run out after 3 years.
Whopity is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2023, 06:18
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,976
Received 32 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by GolfWhiskyKilo
Oh Iím very interested! Do you think itís doable within 25k? Class 1, hours building, CPL/IR etc?

25k makes it tempting!

The recent BA thing has got me interested again, but 18+ months without an income would be very hard to swallow and I would 100% get a lot from instructing.

Are you saying I should bite the bullet?!
If you want to be a pilot, then yes. You've probably done most of the hour building, next step would be a class one and the ATPLs. A CBIR is 25 dual and 15 PIC, you'll need about 10 hours multi and a CPL is 15 hours.
The flight training plus hour building would cost around £20k (based on 180 solo, 240 dual, 450 multi - you can get cheaper. ) Add in medical, a distance learning course and ATPL exams and it pushes it closer to £25k.
rudestuff is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.