Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

Stall/Spin Training

Old 31st Jul 2021, 15:08
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stall/Spin Training

Hi,

Where is the reference to the requirement for 2 hours of SSAT in the PPL course?
sluggums is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2021, 18:32
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,578
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
AMC1 FCL.210.A PPL(A) – Experience requirements and crediting
FLIGHT INSTRUCTION FOR THE PPL(A)
(xiv) Exercise 11: Spin avoidance:
(A) safety checks;
(B) stalling and recovery at the incipient spin stage (stall with excessive wing drop, about 45°);
(C) instructor induced distractions during the stall.
Note 1: at least two hours of stall awareness and spin avoidance flight training should be completed during the course.
Whopity is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2021, 23:56
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,169
Received 133 Likes on 60 Posts
FYI Transport Canada has a Stall and Spin Avoidance guide if you are interested. Google TP 13747
Big Pistons Forever is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 01:28
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 65
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Out of interest: "at least two hours of stall awareness and spin avoidance flight training" seems to me that means undertaking that training for 2 hours rather than, for example, doing two flights of an hour each where such training was undertaken? If I do such a one hour flight from where I am based I would spend about 25 minutes max doing the stall/spin avoidance exercises.
David J Pilkington is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:53
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South East.
Posts: 874
Received 9 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by David J Pilkington
Out of interest: "at least two hours of stall awareness and spin avoidance flight training" seems to me that means undertaking that training for 2 hours rather than, for example, doing two flights of an hour each where such training was undertaken? If I do such a one hour flight from where I am based I would spend about 25 minutes max doing the stall/spin avoidance exercises.
I think the thing to remember, DJP, is that this is not really a box-ticking exercise.
Having carried out such instruction for a long time, albeit mainly prior to aerobatic training, the idea is to familiarise yourself with the physical/visual situation of any Unusual Position, to recognise it and to safely recover with minimum height loss.
IMHO this requires as many hours practice as is needed to feel comfortable with your recoveries.
There have been too many fatal accidents caused by spinning off the Finals turn, mishandling in poor visibility and just flicking off an over-enthusiastic steep turn at low level. It’s for your own good.
Sleeve Wing is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 10:27
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 65
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sleeve Wing
I think the thing to remember, DJP, is that this is not really a box-ticking exercise. ..... IMHO this requires as many hours practice as is needed to feel comfortable with your recoveries.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Sleeve Wing
Having carried out such instruction for a long time, albeit mainly prior to aerobatic training ......
Me too. I encounter many new pilots and I wonder. I also wonder about some aircraft types used wrt flight manual limitations.

CASA's sample training syllabus here has two 1 hr flights so I'm interested in the meaning of that note.
David J Pilkington is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 10:54
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hotel this week, hotel next week, home whenever...
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
After completing exercise 10 you’re probably not far off 2 hrs SSAT anyways, but it is far better to review some stall awareness/avoidance often during the course - just 10-15 minutes every 2 months or so. Keeps it all fresh in the students thoughts. Never have too much SSAT in your book.
Duchess_Driver is online now  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 11:13
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
seems to me that means undertaking that training for 2 hours rather than, for example, doing two flights of an hour each where such training was undertaken? If I do such a one hour flight from where I am based I would spend about 25 minutes max doing the stall/spin avoidance exercises.
There is no stipulation as to how many flights to accrue 2 hours and nor should there be, The old way was perhaps too restricted and based on 'Pavlov's Dog'. Much time was spent in repetition honing a valuable, in itself, auto response. The aircraft can be stalled in any phase of flight of course and therefore there is no need to climb to straight and level before training commences. Much can be done more than only 25 minutes in level flight: the departure and the the climb, climbing turns, slow flight including simulated poor visibility, during the descent, the circuit and the approach. The two hours can be fully utilised with a little imagination even, have you thought, whilst taxying. Interestingly, some years ago, the UK General Aviation Safety Council (GASCo) produced a study of all this and to which I contributed. The most noted phase for loss of control, resulting in a fatality, was during the climbing turn following the take-off, but this is ignored and rarely mentioned - take note.
Fl1ingfrog is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2021, 23:04
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 65
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Fl1ingfrog
There is no stipulation as to how many flights to accrue 2 hours and nor should there be ... The most noted phase for loss of control, resulting in a fatality, was during the climbing turn following the take-off, but this is ignored and rarely mentioned - take note.
Yes, fully aware of all of that. Thanks, that is the closest to answering my simple question on the meaning of that note. I'll stop bothering everyone here.
David J Pilkington is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.