Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Flying Instructors & Examiners
Reload this Page >

Radio Licence in Austria

Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

Radio Licence in Austria

Old 16th Sep 2020, 08:55
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Further from home now
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Radio Licence in Austria

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for a bit of advice. I am an Austrian ATPL holder, and I am about to do an SEP(land) checkride to reissue the class rating.
I obtained my licence at Oxford Aviation Academy as a (f)ATPL from the UK CAA, which later was unfrozen and 2 years ago transferred to Austrocontrol for professional requirements.
During my time at OAA, obviously we did the theoretical and practical exams to get the radio licence, which was represented in the licence under section XII as ''The holder of this licence has demonstrated competence to operate R/T equipment on board aircraft in English''
This is also, word for word, stated in my Austrocontrol ATPL.
However, my instructor stated I need a separate Radio Licence (AFZ) and need to carry it with me at all times when flying, and thus when doing the exam. I however, wasn't issued one when I converted my licence and neither did I know this was a requirement. Even with the Airbus I fly professionally and had a ramp check in Germany (same requirement apparently) this was never an issue.
My question is, do I actually need to carry one or is section XII of the licence enough? Could this become an issue when being ramp checked on any plane? And could I get one without doing the exams again?

Thanks in advance.
SavedByTheTCAS is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2020, 09:21
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is absolutely no requirement to have a seperate radio licence. There is no such thing under EASA, the privileges are contained within your ATPL. The UK used to issue a seperate radiotelephony licence however; that was also incorporated into the pilot licence. ICAO Annex 1 states that the radio licence may be either a seperate licence or may be incorporated into an other flight crew licence at the discretion of the NAA. The only place where reference is made to a sepearate radio licence is in the ITU General Radio Regulations Article 37 which specifies the format of a radiotelephony licence with which neither the UK nor the EASA licences comply.

If the State of Licence Issue require you to have a seperate radio licence to meet the ITU requirement then they should issue it to you on the basis of the licence you already hold.

Holders of a FAA pilot certificate must hold a FCC radiotelephony licence when operating outside the USA, something many holders do not know.
Whopity is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2020, 13:13
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Age: 58
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Holders of a FAA pilot certificate must hold a FCC radiotelephony licence when operating outside the USA, something many holders do not know.

not everywhere, but regardless, in the places it IS required, (like the Bahamas and pretty much everywhere Iíve flown in South America), Iíve never been asked to produce it. I do have one, and it took me about 15 minutes online and cost, as I recall, less than $20 to obtain it.
421dog is offline  
Old 16th Sep 2020, 15:12
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A very weird requirement indeed. Should already be part of the ATPL.
And you are trying to activate a class rating. Not a license.
And what about just flying in E,F and G space? No radio required. Not that I think it is a good idea.

My advice: Call Austrocontrol and ask them. They are the authority, not the instructor.
Their website has the contact information. And they have a link to Part FCL. Check subsection H on class ratings requirements.
Archer4 is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2020, 09:09
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Further from home now
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
After having consulted another instructor as well, the confusion seems to be that the flying club usually only deals with new VFR RPL/PPL students, which then it is a requirement, since the radio licence is not part of the PPL course, you could theoretically fly only in E, F & G airspaces. You do need a separate RT licence to pass the initial PPL checkride, whereas with ATPL or CPL it seems to be integrated.
Funny thing here is that Austrocontrol do not issue the R/T licences, but another authority does.

As with my licence, we came to the conclusion that if you hold a CPL or ATPL, you have demonstrated your ability for R/T capabilities.
After asking the first instructor to show me the relevant rules to carry an RT licence, he conveniently couldn't find it.

Thanks all!
SavedByTheTCAS is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2022, 22:53
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry to bump this old thread, but i got a relevant question :-)

I am in the process of converting FAA -> EASA with austrocontrol (doing theory atm) ... A school in germany near me mentioned i would need to get a radio license aswell. When googling, i also find lots of info on AFZ and how it's required, but reading this thread i'm thinking i dont need one? If i do a conversion will i have it integrated on the CPL/IR ?

I take it i do have to do the ICAO language proficiency test either way though, right?

Thanks

mattpilot is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2022, 07:43
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: holding short of....
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Email Austro-control

Hi,
In general you don't have to do it, however it goes case by case and I would suggest you to email Austro-control directly (they are super fast in answering queries) the address is: piloten (at) AustroControl (dot)at

The answer you are going to get will be your back up by the time you send all the docs for application.
The ELP is not the same as RT.

Originally Posted by mattpilot View Post
Sorry to bump this old thread, but i got a relevant question :-)

I am in the process of converting FAA -> EASA with austrocontrol (doing theory atm) ... A school in germany near me mentioned i would need to get a radio license aswell. When googling, i also find lots of info on AFZ and how it's required, but reading this thread i'm thinking i dont need one? If i do a conversion will i have it integrated on the CPL/IR ?

I take it i do have to do the ICAO language proficiency test either way though, right?

Thanks
Airgus is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2022, 09:31
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Mattpilot,
You are converting a FAA licence which does not contain a Radio Licence. For operation outside the Contiguous USA FAA licence holders should be in posession of a FCC Radiotelephone Certificate Form 605-FRC. It costs you $70 and a signature to say you swear you won't sware.
Whopity is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2022, 11:00
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I got a FCC licence .. and i also found a austrian gov't site that 'validates' it (well, not sure if an FCC one qualifies, but they say foreign .. so going to try ;-)) ... https://www.fb.gv.at/Pruefungen/pruefungen-flug.html

And i was going to go that route, but i was surprised to find this thread that said none may be needed at all.

But is a validation sufficient? Os it only valid it austria or can i fly to germany with it? Its all a bit confusing

I will write to austrocontrol as airgus suggested to see if i can get a bit wiser.

Thanks for the input guys.
mattpilot is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2022, 16:00
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If its validated by Austro control and you have an Austrocontrol licence it must be accepted by other EASA States. That is the point of EASA.
Whopity is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2022, 20:59
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The US restricted radio operator (RR) certificate application fee has been reduced to 35 USD.

Is radiotelephone operator certification within EASA's remit?

Art 37 (operator's certificates) of the ITU radio regulations allows states to recognise foreign certificates (emphasis added):

37.1 ß 1 1) The service of every aircraft station and every aircraft earth station shall be
controlled by an operator holding a certificate issued or recognized by the government to which the
station is subject. Provided the station is so controlled, other persons besides the holder of the
certificate may use the radiotelephone equipment.



selfin is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.