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UK PPL for £6,000

Old 30th Dec 2019, 22:29
  #21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BirdmanBerry View Post
Eden Flight Training then. Check out the financials on Companies House, not exactly rolling in cash if anything were to go slightly wrong and only 1 employee shown.
Possibly yes. But that said, it's pay as you go. If it were to go bust, it's not like the students are going to lose anything.

Sounds like a pretty good deal for students.
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 22:48
  #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ReturningVector View Post
6000 for 45 hours is 133 per hour. That includes the payment to the instructor (who also needs to be paid for briefing time etc), fuel, maintaince etc.

And even then you still havenít factored in the ground school infrastructure, overhead and your profit margin.

I donít think the math adds up.
Yeah I'd agree with this 100%. Doesn't make sense to say 6K and thats not including many of the costs.... Also as many PPL's don't achieve the standard in 45 hours then 6K is an irrelevant number. Focus on quality training and personal development, that will build a far better long term business. Good luck!
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 09:24
  #23 (permalink)  
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This sounds perfect! I did 5-10 hours of my PPL, but used to pay around £150 a lesson. This was quite a few years back. Would love to re-start it with a fixed price course like this.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 09:46
  #24 (permalink)  
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You'd spend far more maintaining those diesels than you'd ever save on fuel costs. And, if you're thinking of buying new diesel PA28s, the depreciation will kill the business anyway. It's one of the many reasons why Cabair went upside down..............
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 11:45
  #25 (permalink)  
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The Cabair debacle had nothing to do with Jet A-1 engines.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 12:02
  #26 (permalink)  
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This sounds like the ideal way to make a small fortune.

If you start with a large one....

If I was rich enough to do what you suggest, it's the last thing I'd do.

If you can find a way to put your money on deposit in India, they pay about 10% pa.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 15:13
  #27 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
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You posed a similar Q in November least you got a few answers this time....
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 17:11
  #28 (permalink)  
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This entire thread looks rather suspicious to me.

Alister starts the thread by suggesting that he/she wants to set up a school providing PPL for only 6000 pounds.

He/she then names a compeditor which charges even less.

Having named that compeditor he/she then indicates a desire to provide a link to it.

Not wishing to be too harsh, but it looks to me Alistair is either a very inept businessman, or else he/she is trying to bypass the (no advertising) rule.

Last edited by keith williams; 31st Dec 2019 at 17:56.
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 19:03
  #29 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
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Originally Posted by rarelyathome View Post
What the price includes:
  • 45 Hours of dual instruction with one of our Flight Instructors
  • A Pooleys PPL Starter Pack (normally £230)
  • Ground School, including the 9 exams (normally £590)
  • Pre-flight and post flight briefings
  • Extra ground tuition if required
  • Your very own Flight Instructor, you will remain with the same instructor throughout the course.
  • All training is done at our fully approved ATO based at Durham Tees Valley Airport.
45 dual! 1 instructor dedicated! Ground school and all the exams! Extra tuition! Sounds too good to be true ...........
“too good to be true”? Then probably is. “Your very own FI”......a one man band? Nice quiet airport
Caveat Emptor..........due diligence........

Date of ATO approval? Certificate number...

student feedback (genuine) would be helpful.....
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 23:00
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2003
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If you own an aircraft outright, then it would be possible to charge about £133 hour. Just subsidising other peoples aviation ambitions. Nice if you just inherit an aircraft.
£36 if avgas (c152/pa38)
£20 insurance
£20 instructor sole trader
£30 maintenance
£5 ground exams
Not VAT registered so no VAT charged or claimed back.
Need free building and rates to operate out of, not back of car.
Free aircraft parking and landing fees would be needed.
Mobile phone for internet and contact.
Direct line to God to sort the weather out.
But if you think you can sit on your ass and let someone else do the work..forget it.

We bought an aircraft and a customer said, i suppose you will be reducing your rates now.
I said No.
If i owned a house, would i let someone live in it rent free?
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 12:54
  #31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alister View Post
Well if it's the middle of nowhere, accommodation is going to be fairly cheap, no?
If its the middle of nowhere there will be no accommodation.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 16:21
  #32 (permalink)  
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Starting a flying school in Bournemouth

he's talking about Bournemouth on this thread - whilst it's not a place I choose to visit I would not label it as "the middle of nowhere"
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 18:31
  #33 (permalink)  
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I think the issue here is that the author of the thread is looking at a purely business proposition. Here is a product, come and buy it and then walk away. If you going to operate in such a manner you will need to pay your staff a reasonable wage in order to ensure that availability and reliabilty rather than depend upon occasionally available old stagers ( like me ) who instruct upon a part-time basis for peanuts or nothing at all.

Flying schools come and go, its a difficult time out there. What would you offer beyond PPL training - private hire, advanced training, instrument, aeros, tailplane, multi etc etc ? Other than the big Commercial schools I find the best places to learn to fly are the clubs where students feel part of something rather than being just a customer - places to sit and learn from the experiences of others, drink your coffee, socialise and not just turn up to brief,fly,debrief and go home.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 23:56
  #34 (permalink)  
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Ambitious. If I may, ditch the PA28 Diesel for a Sling 2. I completed the nav part of my PPL in Australia on one and besides being a great aircraft, the consumption of the 912 Rotax engine was consistently between 15 and 17 LPH. Every school I've come across Down Under that switched older airframes for Slings has seen immediate benefits. Students who'll want to continue in aviation will eventually get their CPL on more advanced aircraft anyway.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 11:01
  #35 (permalink)  
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The Sling 2 is not an EASA certified aircraft so can't be used for PPL training.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 14:25
  #36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Whopity View Post
The Sling 2 is not an EASA certified aircraft so can't be used for PPL training.
I believe it could in the USA, under its LSA approval, can't in EASAland as it lacks a CofA, but that may me changing in the UK where the goalposts are slowly shifting about training on non-ICAO aeroplanes. Other countries will doubtless vary further. I believe that *some* training can certainly be conducted in Australia under RAAus rules, although am less clear about the extent of that.


Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 4th Jan 2020 at 14:35.
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 19:32
  #37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Whopity View Post
The Sling 2 is not an EASA certified aircraft so can't be used for PPL training.
As an aside, does that mean that it is not possible to gain an EASA PPL by training, ab initio, on a Tiger Moth?
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Old 4th Jan 2020, 21:31
  #38 (permalink)  
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The Tiger Moth is covered under DTO.GEN.240 amended Dec 2019:
(a) A DTO shall use an adequate fleet of training aircraft or FSTDs appropriately equipped for the training course provided. The fleet of aircraft shall be composed of aircraft that comply with all requirements defined in Regulation (EU) 2018/1139. Aircraft that fall under points (a), (b), (c) or (d) of Annex I to Regulation (EU) 2018/1139, may be used for training if all of the following conditions are met:
(1) during an evaluation process the competent authority has confirmed a level of safety comparable to the one defined by all essential requirements laid down in Annex II to Regulation (EU) 2018/1139;
(2) the competent authority has authorised the use of the aircraft for training in the DTO.
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Old 5th Jan 2020, 20:10
  #39 (permalink)  
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Thanks Whopity.

Playing Devil's Advocate, the Sling could be used for training on the same basis then.
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Old 6th Jan 2020, 09:20
  #40 (permalink)  
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I for one, would like you to try and get the Sling 2 approved by the UK CAA by the end of this year (bearing in mind how busy they will be anyway, at least until the 31st of December). But I wouldn't buy one even if I could afford to........
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